"Devil" with an initial "dr-" consonant cluster
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I was intrigued by the surname of a very nice man whom I met at Home Depot. His name was Steven Dreibelbis, and his position in the store was that of "Customer Experience Manager".
Steven'a surname, Dreibelbis, sounded very German to me. I asked him about it and he told me that he was indeed of German descent on his father's side, but his mother was Colombian and his grandmother was Peruvian, so he looked more South American than German.
He said that his father had gone to South America to seek his fortune (selling cars), but that he still had relatives in Pennsylvania Dutch country.
I became all the more interested in his heritage.
I guessed that the "drei" of his surname meant "three", but couldn't find any German word that sounded like belbis. So I looked up Dreibelbis directly and this is what I found:
The Dreibelbis surname is an Americanized variation of the Swiss German name Deubelbeiss, meaning "devil's bite" (from German Dūvel "devil" + beiz "biter"). It arrived in America with early German/Swiss immigrants, particularly in Pennsylvania, evolving from spellings like Debelbissen, Deubelbiss, and Devilbiss, and is strongly associated with historic farms and communities in Berks County, PA.
Key Characteristics:
-
- Origin: Swiss German, linked to regions near Germany and Switzerland.
- Meaning: "Devil's Bite" or "Devil Biter".
- Evolution: From Deubelbeiss to various forms like Dreibelbis, Divelbiss, and Devilbiss.
- Early American Presence: Strong presence in Pennsylvania, with early records showing families in the 1840s and 1880s.
- Historical Significance: Connected to historic sites like the Dreibelbis Farm in Berks County, PA, preserving local history. (also here)
In Summary: Dreibelbis is a surname of German origin, representing a fascinating linguistic journey from medieval German/Swiss dialect to its common American form, often tied to specific family histories and locations in the United States
(AIO)
So the first part is the same as the surname of a colleague of Swabian ancestry who is called "Teufel" ("Devil").
I asked June whether her Swabian relatives have any permutations of their surname that begin with a "dr-" consonant cluster. She couldn't think of any, but instead said:
My interest in the name comes from noticing how German changes into Dutch and then changes again into English, as in Teufelèduyvilè devil. Curious about how Spuyten Duyvil (Bridge) got its name, I was told that it meant “to spite the devil” b/c the bridge enabled people to cross the treacherous waters underneath it. But later learned there are a couple of other translations. Regardless, and since no one appears to know for sure, I prefer the one I first learned.
Here's an extensive explanation of the place name:
Spuyten Duyvil (/ˈspaɪtən ˈdaɪvəl/, SPY-tən-DIE-vəl) is a neighborhood of the Bronx, New York City. It is bounded on the north by Riverdale, on the east by Kingsbridge, on the south by the Harlem River, and on the west by the Hudson River. Some consider it to be the southernmost part of Riverdale.
The area is named after Spuyten Duyvil Creek. "Spuyten Duyvil" may be literally translated as "Spouting Devil" or Spuitende Duivel in Dutch, a reference to the strong and wild tidal currents found at that location. It may also be translated as "Spewing Devil" or "Spinning Devil", or more loosely as "Devil's Whirlpool" or "Devil's Spate." Spui is a Dutch word involving outlets for water. Historian Reginald Pelham Bolton, however, argues that the phrase means "spouting meadow", referring to a fresh-water spring at Inwood Hill.
An additional translation, "to spite the Devil" or "in spite of the devil", was popularized by a story in Washington Irving's A Knickerbocker's History of New York published in 1809. Set in the 1660s, the story tells of trumpeter Antony Van Corlear summoned by "Peter de Groodt" to warn settlers of an attempted British invasion, with Corlear attempting to swim across the "Harlean river" from Fort Amsterdam to the Bronx mainland "in spite of the devil (spyt den duyvel)", Irving writes. The treacherous current pulled him under and he lost his life. This resulted in the name "Spuyten Duyvil" for "the adjoining promontory, which projects into the Hudson."
An extensive appendix to Studies in Etymology and Etiology (2009) by David L. Gold, which includes commentary by Rob Rentenaar, professor of onomastics at the University of Amsterdam, goes into great detail about all the various translations for "Spuyten Duyvil" which have been mooted over the years. Rentenaar concludes that "Duyvil" means "devil", either literally or in a transferred sense, but he could not determine what the intended meaning of "Spuyten" was because of the many variants that have been used throughout history.
The creek was referred to as Shorakapok by Lenape Native Americans in the area, translated as "the sitting-down place" or "the place between the ridges".
Incidentally, "speak of the devil" (or "talk of the devil") is an idiom used when someone you were just talking about unexpectedly appears, short for the older phrase "Speak of the devil and he doth appear,"
I mention this English idiom because it has a curious equivalent in Chinese:
shuō Cáo Cāo Cáo Cāo jiù dàole
說曹操曹操就到了
"Speak of the devil and he shall appear"
(Cao Cao [155-220])
Even more curious is how similar sayings occur in languages spread across the world:
A cognate of this phrase appears in the 15th century Chinese novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms as 说曹操，曹操到 or "Speak of Cao Cao, Cao Cao arrives".
In many cultures a different, dangerous, person or character is referenced in the phrase. In Serbian, the phrase translates to, "Speak of the wolf and he is at your door." French translates it to "Speak of the wolf and you see its tail". In Czech it's "We talk about the Wolf, and the Wolf is at the door". Tunisian has it as "Mention the cat, and it comes to you jumping". Though, when it's a person whom it's talked about and they become present, it's often said "How long is your life!". In Norwegian it's "Speak of the sun, it will shine". In Swedish it's "When you speak of the trolls, they're in the hallway". In Hungarian it is "Emlegetett szamár" meaning approximately "Here is the mentioned donkey". In Spain it's "Talking about the King of Rome and through the door he comes".
The Swedish parallel is especially captivating to me because I'm in the midst of preparing a major post on trolls, also because the word begins with a dental + liquid consonant cluster.
All because of a personable Customer Experience Manager at the local Home Depot.
Selected readings
- "Devil-language" (5/25/14)
- "Sino-Sanskritic 'devil'" (12/11/18)
- "Foreign devil froth and foam" (2/13/22) — with bibliography
- "Diabolo: devil / yo-yo" (4/29/23)
- "Devilishly difficult 'dialect'" (8/20/15)
Lucas Christopoulos said,
December 10, 2025 @ 7:58 am
Le pont du Diable en Suisse:
The legend of the Devil's Bridge in Switzerland is a popular story that varies depending on the region, but it is generally linked to a specific place, such as the Devil's Bridge in Kandersteg or the one in Bremgarten. The most famous version of the legend is that of the Devil's Bridge in Bremgarten, in the canton of Aargau.
Here’s a summary of the legend:
A long time ago, a small village was located on the banks of a river, but the villagers often found themselves isolated, as the river was difficult to cross, especially in winter. The villagers needed a bridge to connect the two banks. One day, a mysterious man, often described as the Devil himself, appeared and offered to build a bridge in one night. In exchange, he demanded the soul of the first living being that would cross the bridge once it was completed.
The villagers accepted the offer, hoping that the Devil would keep his word and build a functional bridge in record time. The Devil worked through the night, and by morning, a magnificent bridge was ready to be used. However, when it was time to cross, the villagers had a clever idea: they sent a dog to cross first, instead of a human. The Devil, furious at being tricked, tried to take the soul of the dog, but he was unsuccessful.
In some versions of the legend, the Devil was so enraged that he destroyed part of the bridge, but he never got his due. Other versions say that, out of spite, the Devil left a curse on the bridge, ensuring it would always be a mysterious place, often associated with supernatural phenomena.
The Devil's Bridge is a symbol in many local legends of the region, representing cunning, defiance against supernatural powers, and the struggle between good and evil.
This legend appears in other versions and locations in Switzerland, and each of the bridges reputed to be linked to the Devil typically carries a similar story, though the details may vary.
jin defang said,
December 10, 2025 @ 8:16 am
interesting, though since spiting or spitting at the devil doesn't imply you've made him appear (in these scenarios he was always present), the situation is different than with Cao Cao, where you've made him appear. Also different from the American "speak of the devil," which I've always understood as a teasing reference to the appearance of someone you're actually rather fond of.
So the devil exists in a wide variety of situations. To paraphrase Voltaire, if the devil didn't exist, we would be forced to invent him.
Victor Mair said,
December 10, 2025 @ 8:28 am
For many years, my brother Thomas Lee maintained a blog about devil's bridges in alpine regions of Europe and I think also elsewhere as well. He devoted a lot of research into writing them, so I hope that he has somehow maintained an archive of these fascinating, valuable articles.
Philip Taylor said,
December 10, 2025 @ 9:48 am
"I asked June …" — "June" ? Who is June ? She does not appear to feature in the narrative prior to you asking her (or at least, Firefox can find no earlier mention, and neither can my eyes).
Victor Mair said,
December 10, 2025 @ 10:25 am
June Teufel (Dreyer), distinguished professor of Political Science at the University of Miami.
Robert Coren said,
December 10, 2025 @ 9:51 am
I lived near or in the Spuyten Duyvil neighborhood for my entire childhood, and also heard the various legendary translations. I note that the original Spuyten Duyvil Creek is now mostly the Harlem Ship Canal, the waterway having been partially straightened at some point to mitigate the turbulence (which cannot be eliminated entirely, since it is the result of competing tides from the Hudson and East Rivers).
Philip Taylor said,
December 10, 2025 @ 10:34 am
Ah, thank you Victor — all is now clear.
ardj said,
December 10, 2025 @ 10:48 am
The devil's bridge near me, Le Pont du Diable, across the gorges of the Hérault, andclose to ST Guilhem le Désert, was built in 873, by agreement 'twixt two abbeys. The name sems to ahve been acq
ardj said,
December 10, 2025 @ 10:58 am
Sorry, my keyboard is playing up. The date of 873 may be of the original and the solid structure seen today the one for which two abbeys agreed each to build half (and erect no churches thereon, nor charge tolls). The name seems to have been first recorded a century later still, and follows the usual pattern of the devil each night destroying the day's work, and an eventual bargain being reached for the first soul to cross. In this version the intrepid adventurer was a cat: which so irritated the devil that, having tried and failed to destroy the bridge, he cast himself into the depths and was never seen again.
ardj said,
December 10, 2025 @ 11:01 am
Sorry again, muddled. The abbeys' agreement was made between 1036 and 1048.
Vance Koven said,
December 10, 2025 @ 11:20 am
On the subject of people named Teufel, I have such a friend, who told me that it came from roles that were assigned within villages for purposes of Eastertime passion plays. These then got passed down in the same families for generations. When it came time to assign surnames rather than just using patronyms, the role took on the person, instead of the other way around. I don't vouch for the accuracy of the story, but it's interesting nonetheless.
John said,
December 10, 2025 @ 11:52 am
Come visit Penn State some time! The area is crawling with Dreibelbises.
Bybo said,
December 10, 2025 @ 1:50 pm
German: 'Wenn man vom Teufel spricht … [, dann erscheint er]' (I don't think I've heard the last part said out loud in many years)
Also:
'Der Teufel ist ein Eichhörnchen' (this one has always puzzled me, something like bad stuff is in the details and will show up later …?)
'Der Teufel scheißt immer auf den größten Haufen' (those who already have plenty are always getting richer)
'In der Not frisst der Teufel Fliegen' (probably self-explanatory)
Btw, 'Düvel' is also Low German, so geographically pretty much as far away from Switzerland as one can get, but I have always found it mildly amusing that 'deutsch' is 'düütsch' both in the far north (Holstein) and the far south (Switzerland)
Also btw, I was wondering if maybe some of those Teufels might have been Täufers (a more flattering name?) some generations earlier, but I have no evidence.
Jim Mack said,
December 10, 2025 @ 2:10 pm
Isn't it the case that the diphthong 'ui' (or 'uy', which is approximately 'uij') is pronounced 'ow' in Dutch? For example, the town of Muiden is pronounced Maowden. That would make Spuyten into Spouten, giving further credence to the 'Spouting Devil' origin.
Brian said,
December 10, 2025 @ 2:15 pm
Cáo Cāo as an idiom makes a prominent appearance in Douglas Hofstadter's "Le Ton Beau de Marot", in which he relates an event involving the Chinese translation of his earlier book "Gödel, Escher, Bach". In a (fictional) scene where a character exclaims "Speak of the devil!" the Chinese translators had concocted a full, novel sentence that explicitly conveyed the original sentiment. (Something along the lines of "If you name a demon, the demon will appear!") When asked why they hadn't chosen to use the Cáo Cāo idiom, they explained that that wouldn't work at all: readers know that Hofstadter is not a native Chinese speaker, and so would never use such an idiom. The average reader, in short, would _want_ Hofstadter to sound foreign. The question became a turning point for the translation project, since Hofstadter personally wanted all translated verfsions of his book to sound as fluent as possible. It took a few prolong discussions to convince the translators to change their approach, but eventually they embraced the new approach with great enthusiasm.
Victor Mair said,
December 10, 2025 @ 4:04 pm
@Brian:
Sehr interessant!
Once, many years ago, when I was crossing a busy Beijing street, I bumped into David Moser carrying a heavy, bulky bag. I asked him what he had in the bag, and he told me that it was the proofs of his translation of Douglas Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach that he was delivering to the publisher. I congratulated him on finishing such a massive project, but he said, "Victor, you don't know the half of it. There are some things in the manuscript that have to be changed for fussy reasons." Whereupon I commiserated with him and wished him well in satisfying whomever it was wanted the changes made.
Perhaps that "speak of the devil" wording was one of the problems!
Mark Hansell said,
December 10, 2025 @ 5:07 pm
Interesting that German surnames can reference both the devil and God. As baseball analyst Bill James wrote in 1986: "Now that Tim Teufel has been traded to the National League, he and Jim Gott can continue their eternal battle for control of the universe."
Victor Mair said,
December 10, 2025 @ 6:54 pm
From Lucas Christopoulos:
There is a nice book about these legends of the Alps by Alfred Cérésole (1842-1915), free online:
https://ebooks-bnr.com/ebooks/pdf4/ceresole_legendes_des_alpes_vaudoises.pdf
The original printed book that I have has wonderful plates with drawings of Gnomes, Grimoires, fées, servants, géants and diablotins…
Martin Schwartz said,
December 10, 2025 @ 11:54 pm
I'll proceed frrom Deiwel-( /dayv(e)l/), which Wiktionary gives as Central Franconian and Pennsylvania German for 'devil'.
The first b of Dreibelbis could be via influence of the following b,
or from a dialect conserving the b of the Middle High German word for 'devil'. The appealing form Devilbliss seems to be an jollifying American amelioration, but coukd simply have resulted from influence of the first l. But what of Dr- from D-? I see no motivation in English.
I suggest that the form arose among speakers of the underlying German dialect as a way spiting the devil, so to speak, with an apootrpaic euphemism, i.e.Drei– '3-' (as in the Trinity), leaving the rst of the name harmlessly inscrutable.
The Central Franconian form has a counterpart in Yiddlsih tayvl 'devil'.
The lattwer has a curiously Hebraized plural in tayvólm 'devils' (cf.
he(y)vl havólim 'vanity of vanities', from Ashkeznazic Hebrew), like other
plurals designating demonic entities, like shéydim and maziíkim. of Hebrerw/Aramaic origin.
My mother's Brest(*-Litovsk) (Y. Brisk) dialect from southern Belarus near Poland has/had taybl (homophonous with the diminutive of 'dove'); the -b- is probably due to the liquid, asin Brisk bórbes = Standardized Y. bórves 'barefoot'. Cf. more remotely, for labials modified by liquids: Standardized Yiddisn p < b in puter 'butter', poyer 'peasant', nepl 'fog'.
nopl 'navel', gopl 'fork', etc.
Anyway, so much for Teufel-trifles.
Martin Schwartz
in nopl 'navel', nepl 'fog', gopl 'fork',
Martin Schwartz said,
December 11, 2025 @ 12:39 am
@Bybo: Pondering Teufel = Eichhörnchen (never mind the etymology of that, a complex business involving oaks and acorns), I figured
that "horn" has something to do with it, but squirrels have no horns,
at least not any I've known in the US. But then I saw the photo
under "Eichhörnchen" in Wiktionary, indeed a diabolically "horned"
little fellow.
Martin Schwartz
Bybo said,
December 11, 2025 @ 1:13 am
@MS
Nothing devilish about them, they're the cutest thing German fauna has to offer. (Sorry, great rhea!)
Lorenzo said,
December 11, 2025 @ 5:58 am
As for the musing that "some of those Teufels might have been Täufers (a more flattering name?) some generations earlier," one may ask why so. Given the terror in Germany against the anababtists (Täufer / Taufer, by others nicknamed "Wiedertäufer") one may speculate that on being prompted for a surname when disembarking in the USA, many proudly used the name of their faith. Why would they later change that name to "Teufel" (devil)?
As for "diphthong 'ui' " in Dutch, it is pronounced [œy], very close to but not identical with 'eu' [ɔɪ] in German. Old Dutch "duyvel" is indeed "duivel" in modern Dutch. The sound reflects interesting spelling relations to German, English, Danish etc. that cannot be put on simple correlations. For example "uit" -> aus (Germ.) -> out (Eng.) -> ud (Da.); "buit" -> Beute (Germ.) -> booty (Eng.) -> bytte (Da.); "spuiten" -> speien (Germ.) -> spit, spout (Eng.) -> spytte, spy (Da.). The [mɔɪ] in Muiden is not pronounced "maow," but could correspond in meaning to English "mou" as in "mouth." "Spuyten Duyvil" can in that sense be read as "spitting devil" or "spouting devil," but really my first sense would be not to accept the "-ten" as "-ting", because it totally mixes up Dutch and English syntax. Is it not better understood as "spijt den duyvel" in the sense of "spite/scorn on the devil" where the word is not spuyt, but "spijt" [spɛit] (scorn)?
Victor Mair said,
December 11, 2025 @ 7:27 am
I'm still waiting for an explanation for the occurrence of that initial "dr-" in "Dreibelbis", which is a common surname in Pennsylvania Dutch country, although I do appreciate Martin Schwartz's stab at "trinity".
Perhaps it's due to displaced / noncontiguous metathesis of Lorenzo's anabaptist Täufer / Taufer {by others nicknamed "Wiedertäufer").
Pesky little "-r-" sneaking in there!
Lorenzo said,
December 11, 2025 @ 8:56 am
Sorry, I should have commented that "parbleu" is a well-known decoy for "par Dieu," and in languages where diabolic figures' names tend to be taken in vain, swearing often involves mispronunciations and ellipses to mask them. By this logic, changing, adding or subtracting a consonant helps improve a name perceived to be sinister. Given the context you present "Dreibelbis" in, this could be entirely plausible. Or, depending on time and degree of literacy, could it be a clerical error that stuck?
The real question that remains is whether the name in itself was propitious or not. The MHG version of the name seems to be Teufelsbiß (alternatively Teufelsabbiß), which according to DWDS (https://www.dwds.de/wb/dwb/teufelsabbisz#GT02313) refers to a plant associated with some medicinal and folkloric properties related to keeping the devil at bay. In English it's called devil's-bit, in Latin scabiosa succisa. Whether this is actually the origin of the Swiss name is hard to say, and whether it started out being perceived as a good name and later was deemed unfortunate can only be guesswork.
Lorenzo said,
December 11, 2025 @ 9:10 am
Sorry, NHG (Neuhochdeutsch), not MHG.
Robert Coren said,
December 11, 2025 @ 9:48 am
@Bybo: If you think there's "nothing devilish" about squirrels, you clearly are not a gardener.
Rodger C said,
December 11, 2025 @ 10:19 am
There's a medical supply company named DeVilbiss. Evidently the extra capital is to avoid speaking of the devil.
David Marjanović said,
December 11, 2025 @ 10:47 am
Or it could be a hypercorrectivism from one of the many, many dialects that have merged intervocalic /b/ into /v/.
I can't offer a better one; the trinity thing makes sense. There were times & places where, instead of der Teufel, people said der Gottseibeiuns "the God-be-with-us".
That would be totally random, and I don't know how old non-rhoticity is wherever the name really comes from. (Swiss German remains fully rhotic, but the d of Deubelbeiss is not very Swiss.)
Scabiosa succisa; uppercase for the genus name, italics for the whole thing. The "International Code of Nomenclature for algae, fungi, and plants" is here.
David Marjanović said,
December 11, 2025 @ 10:54 am
Oh, I forgot:
Really? Or are these words just taken from southern instead of central German? All obstruents are voiceless in southern German; the German component of Yiddish has mixed origins, and the sound system of at least eastern Yiddish conforms closely to those of the local Slavic languages in having a robust voice distinction, so some interesting reinterpretations happened.
…though now that Upper Saxon has completely lost the fortis-lenis distinction in any form and all plosives are voiceless, the plosives come out as lenes normally but as fortes if immediately followed by /r/, /l/ or /n/, so that's at least similar.
Philip Taylor said,
December 11, 2025 @ 1:04 pm
Scabiosa succisa; uppercase for the genus name, italics for the whole thing. The "International Code of Nomenclature for algae, fungi, and plants" is here — thank you, David : I am delighted to see that I am not the only one who cares about such things …
Lorenzo said,
December 11, 2025 @ 2:28 pm
Checking the name on a website (https://nachnamen.net/nachname-dreibelbis) catering for people with genealogical needs, I find that the surname in question
1) Is clearly of German origin (even though the etymology proffered on the site seems tenuous)
2) Overwhelmingly exists in the United States and predominantly in Pennsylvania (1,200+ persons); ten live in Canada and eight outside North America, of which only two in Europe, but not in German-speaking countries (granted, such stats cannot be relied on for more than an initial clue; yet the message is quite clear)
3) Dates back to the "early 18th Century" (suggesting one founding immigration event centered on Berks County, Pennsylvania)
This being so so, I would suggest a search on resources relating to the "Pennsylvania Dutch" (i.e. German immigrants in the 1700s–1900s) for land owners and farmers of that name in Berks County, for that could be the very place in the world where the name with the "r" originates, be it by choice or mistake.
The same source (https://nachnamen.net/nachname-deibel) yields no hits on Deibelbis, but does on Deibel (with the credible suggestion that it derives from "Diabolus") a name that in various spellings is quite common in German-speaking countries. However, under "Deubelbeiss" (https://nachnamen.net/nachname-deubelbeiss) it provides a charming etymology that I, with my limited knowledge of Swiss German dialects, cannot evaluate, suggesting that it originates in "Taube" (Eng. "Dove" or the diminutive form of it + beiss for "purity") and is distributed mainly in Switzerland, the US and France. The next sobering, or infuriating, explanation is of the surname Divelbiss (https://nachnamen.net/nachname-divelbiss), almost exclusively in the USA but also of German origin, coming from the words for "thief" and "bite." By contrast, the Namecensus website (https://namecensus.com/last-names/divelbiss-surname-popularity/) provides rather specific and credible information on the history (way back in Germany, mainly Bavaria) and meaning of the name in the very same spelling "Divelbiss."
Please have me excused for jumping out of this rabbit hole now.
Lorenzo said,
December 11, 2025 @ 2:45 pm
Sorry for violating the "International Code of Nomenclature for algae, fungi, and plants." Thank you for enlightening me. Will do better next time. I guess the term "morsus diaboli" falls outside the nomenclature; it doesn't seem to carry Carl Linné's fingerprints. Else please correct me.
Lorenzo said,
December 11, 2025 @ 3:35 pm
On Dreibelbis, information on the website https://nachnamen.net/nachname-dreibelbis provides sufficient grounds to assume that the surname in this spelling (with an "r"),belonging to people of German background, can be traced back to one immigration event in the early 18th Century relating to what became landowners and farmers in Berks County, Pennsylvania. The website's etymology of the name is not very credible. Was the spelling by choice or accident? It does not seem to exist in German-speaking countries.
The same website provides data on Deibel (in various spellings, originating in _diabolus_), Divelbeis, Deubelbeiss, etc., but not on Deibelbeis. The https://namecensus.com/last-names/divelbiss-surname-popularity/ website, while suggesting two very different etymologies or "meanings" of Divelbiss (a variety of "Diepoldswiese" [Diepold's meadow] or meaning "Devil's bite") provides very good insights in the origins in Nuremberg, Würtemberg, Augsburg etc. with dates and professions of people so named. The name Deibelbeis is likely to have existed. No matter whether its original meaning was related to the devil or not, this may have been what the migrants believed and hoped to end when they set foot in the new world and wanted to begin a new life. And "drei" may simply have been the lucky number that rolled smoothly off the tongue.
Now I must leave this rabbit hole.
Yves Rehbein said,
December 11, 2025 @ 4:49 pm
From a look at translations for squirrel, Luxemburgish Kaweechelchen strikes me as the most likely comparison for Teufel in that sense. If related to chew, German kauen, as the Wiktionary is suggesting, I suppose the consonant change has to be taken with a grian of salt due to the immense potential of superstitious folk believes.
As for Täufer, I have to concur the thought occured to me. I regretted that my comments on Teufel have previously failed to make a point on Whimsical Surnames 2 (LLOG 2024). DFD actually confirms that German Dübel as a surname is ambiguous: the devil as a nick (!) name and dowel as a more abusive term, rarely occupational [1]. DWDS and Etymologiebank note the etymology is uncertain and maybe related to English dub [2, 3], which is not an exact cognate of taufen.
Now I am easily scared by olde nick, so I'll leave it at that, though in the spirit of the thread I'll note an idiom, "nicht gleich den Teufel an die Wand malen" (don't see the devil in everything, "don't be so pessimistic" [4]).
Martin Schwartz said,
December 12, 2025 @ 1:23 am
@David Marjanović: In (East European Yiddish) Middle German
b- remains b-, e.g. boyen = bauen, boym =Baum, buš = Busch,
etc. etc.;; thus I attributethe p- of poyer and puter to the -(e)r, and now cf. Yid. polster ,NHG Polster, MHG polster, bolster, the b- form being foundin non-German Germanic languages and traceable to PIE..
As to nepl, nopl, gopl, -l does not induce devoicing with voiced stops other than *b; thus nodl 'needle', meydl 'girl', kneydl 'dumpling'; yingl 'young boy', 'kugl 'ball', beygl 'bagel'. Probably a scholar of the history of Yiddish and/or German "dialects" can say more. A historical Yiddishist
may be able to illuminate (as to dialects) the following:
Speak(in)g of th devi, and of my maternal Brisker Yiddish,
the latter has for 'Satan' der Sutn, which is the regular correspondent of northerly Sotn(cf. Brisk and Polish Yiddish dus = Standardized (northern) Yiddish dos = German das.Now, Brisk Sutn 'Satan'influenced the word for 'shadow', sutn, expectedly šutn = Standardized šotn, cf. Schatten. Otherwise Brisk never has š- > s; although up in the north colloquial "Litvak" Yiddish has š > plalatal ś.As a rsult of Sutn/sutn, the more shadowy parts of our apartment, e.g. the hallway, seemed particularly sinister.
Martin Schwartz
Frans said,
December 14, 2025 @ 9:10 am
@Lorenzo
I wouldn't see that particular option as mixing anything. In that sense it'd be "spuitende duivel," where you could easily see the double de-du being swallowed in common parlance. No English necessary.
We could also take it as some kind of dative or accusative case. That is, plain old spuitduivel. Compare something like "in koelen bloede." We'd now say "in koel bloed" if that weren't a fixed expression. The distinction between spoutdevil and spouting devil is negligible, but the former would sound a bit odd in English and the latter wouldn't.
Incidentally, 17th century newspapers surprisingly frequently speak of newly patented firehoses with spouts (Slang-Brand-spuyten), that are so light they can be carried without horses and can quickly extinguish any fire. One might also imagine a connection between a body of water and a spout firehose.
From the perspective of Modern Dutch, intuitively I'd read it as something closer to "Spuy ten Duyvil", which would mean something like spui (outlet) at devil['s creek].
Paul Wallig said,
December 15, 2025 @ 6:57 pm
A retired Brazilian bishop appropriately named Zeno Hassenteufel (hated the devil) died this year. https://www.cnbb.org.br/falecimento/2/
David Marjanović said,
December 17, 2025 @ 10:37 am
Well, hassen is the infinitive and does not make sense here; but "hated the devil" would be hasste den Teufel, which may be close enough!
Yves Rehbein said,
December 20, 2025 @ 6:46 am
@ David Marjanović, it is supposed to be a Springinsfeld construction, and contraction of hass-den to hass'en would be unremarkable, DFD confirms [1].
I guess it could also be a form of hazel (plant name), Hasso (man's name), or something else from toponomy, see Dutch Hassinkbrink, Sabine Hossenfelder (certainly not hate-the-fields). It could bring us back to @Frans' notion of Dutch ten in placenames, as well as familynames. I don't see yet how that would bring us back to Täufer. Here it could be hydronymic Tümpel ("pond", see Biertümpel [2], compare Biernot, literally beer-need or beer-emergency, actually a form of Biernat, Bernhard [3]*) under affrication Tümpfel (see Biertümpfel) and reinterpretation (compare Proto-Celtic *dubros "water", Welsh dwfr).
See also Bietendübel (bite-the-devil [4]), which would bring us back to Mr. Dreibelbis and the question of -r- now also for Biertümpel and Bietendübel.
*: rather compare Proto-Celtic *nantos "river, valley", Dinant (Walloon, France), Welsh Nant Dwyfol (!), and Hispano-Celtic in Medieval Latin Ebronanto "Yew-valley", where ebro and yew are incidentally cognate to German Eibe as well as French Yves (not exactly, *eburos is considered a synonym of *iwos, cognate to *īhwaz [5). Since nant may carry sacred connotations I suspect that Notre Dame is related, too (*nantr-dom).
(!) one would expect nVn-Teufel and indeed there is Neunteufel, which makes no sense in German (9-devil).
Yours Truly
Bernd
David Marjanović said,
December 20, 2025 @ 11:22 am
Agreed.
That would be Hasel with a long vowel, and any change to the /l/ would be very strange.
That said, I can come up with a scenario for how Hossenfelder could come from Hase "hare" by loaning from a Bavarian or similar dialect into a much more northern one.
Sure it does: "he's not only as bad as one devil, but as bad as nine!" See also Manteuffel = Mannteufel = "devil in human form"…
Why do you sign as "Bernd" when you've just told us your name is Yves? Or are you publishing an email somebody else sent you?
Yves Rehbein said,
December 24, 2025 @ 3:40 am
I had hoped it would become obvious that Bernd and Yves have to be mere variants for my argument to make sense.
The yew is an evergreen, so it would make sense to compare *īhwaz < *h₁eyHw- with ever, *aiwaz < *h₂óyu ~ *h₂yéws, and ἥβη, *yēgʷeh₂ (Wiktionary) or *Hyéh₁gʷeh₂- (ALEW: *jegti, see there aeolic ἄβα). ἥβη is an appropriate appellative for a "youth", because that's what it means. I am not a shrub. Beyond that I won't bore you with the details. It is not clear, after all, how to connect *iwos with *ebros and all the other bits and pieces.
That aside, perhaps it would be useful to begin with the prefix of Diabolus in toponomastics.
l/n-heteroclite sol / sun is explained by dative and you know that compounds were built on dative plural, even Sonnenschein by analogy although there is only one sun. Assimilation of alveolars /ln/ is not too much of a stretch. I doubt that a botanist can separate all those forms that are rather attributed to Hase- (cf. hasenhoden, "priaspicus," [DWb]; i.e. orchid?).
Hasel does have by-forms Hassel*. To the contrary, Hahsdenteufel shows length, maybe, though DFD argues misreading of Haß.
Neun "9" is simply not a common element in names, almost always neu "new".
Sincerely
das kleinere Übel