The niceties of German grammar
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Recently I came upon the following quotation from the Lutheran theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer (1905-1945):
As soon as I saw "gefährlicherer", I thought it must be a typo or a grammatical error, but that's how it's quoted everywhere, e.g., here:
"Deep Thought: Let's Talk About Dummheit"
h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition (7/6/24)
and here, here, here (p. 56)….
Since "gefährlicherer" is way beyond my humble German competence (the only comparative degree I know for "gefährlich" is "gefährlicher", I decided to look it up.
According to Wiktionary, "gefährlicherer" is the
- inflection of gefährlich:
Wiktionary even kindly provides an audo file of "gefährlicherer" spoken by a native / resident of Berlin (not a jam-filled doughnut).
So "gefährlicherer Feind" is grammatically correct German.
Here's how it is constructed:
gefährlich: the positive form of the adjective, meaning "dangerous"
gefährlicher: the comparative form, meaning "more dangerous"
gefährlicherer: an inflected version of the comparative, which is correct because it must agree in case, number, and gender with the noun it modifies
Tant pis!
Selected readings
- "commoner" (11/25/09)
- "geheuer und Ungeheuer" (3/24/25)
S Frankel said,
October 10, 2025 @ 9:26 pm
Doesn't seem weird to me but my German is more-or-less serviceable. Does "sicherer" ('more certain') strike you in the same way as gefährlicherer?
Victor Mair said,
October 10, 2025 @ 9:47 pm
No, because sicher just means "safe, secure", not "more safe, more secure". The comparative is sicherer or sichrer, superlative am sichersten.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sicher
Tom Ace said,
October 10, 2025 @ 9:53 pm
The real fun is when the adjective ends in -er to begin with,
e.g. lockererer Griff (looser grip).
Patrick said,
October 11, 2025 @ 1:13 am
Dies ist ein gefährlicher Hund.
This is a dangerous dog.
Dies ist ein gefährlicherer Hund.
This is a more dangerous dog.
Dieser Hund ist gefährlicher.
This dog is more dangerous.
I think there is another rule in play in addition to comparatives.
Dummheit ist ein gefährlicher Feind des Guten als Bosheit
Stupidity is a dangerous enemy of the Good than Malice
Thomas said,
October 11, 2025 @ 2:22 am
While the -ererer ending is something that can normally occur, I find it peculiar that in other context, German got rid of this repeating pattern. A person who wanders is a "Wanderer". Now female versions of many words are obtained by just adding the suffix -in. However, a female person who wanders is a "Wanderin". Why can we say sichererer but not *Wandererin?
Philip Taylor said,
October 11, 2025 @ 3:19 am
Clearly I am missing something — what is the significance of the parenthetic "(not a jam-filled doughnut)" ?
Colin Watson said,
October 11, 2025 @ 4:25 am
@Philip Taylor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_(doughnut)
Philip Taylor said,
October 11, 2025 @ 9:16 am
Ah. Thank you. Another food item I had not previously encountered, although the description ("a German jam doughnut with no central hole") did lead me to wonder into what the jam was inserted … I suspect that it meant "a spheroid, not a toroid", but the meaning was initially unclear.
Victor Mair said,
October 11, 2025 @ 11:03 am
JFK: "Ich bin ein Berliner"
=====
There is a widespread misconception that Kennedy accidentally said that he was a Berliner, a type of German doughnut. This is an urban legend which emerged two decades after the speech, and it is not true that residents of Berlin in 1963 would have mainly understood the word "Berliner" to refer to a jelly doughnut or that the audience laughed at Kennedy's use of this expression – if nothing else because this type of doughnut is called "Pfannkuchen" (literally: Pan cake) in Berlin and the word "Berliner" is only used outside of Berlin.
=====
David Marjanović said,
October 11, 2025 @ 12:02 pm
Yes. The first -er is the comparative, the second is nom. sg. m. indefinite.
Never seen or heard that one, but I bet it occurs in poetry and/or writings from certain parts of Germany into the 19th century.
There is: only attributive adjectives are inflected. Predicative adjectives are not, making them identical to adverbs and also making them look like English adjectives. So, the first -er is present in this example, but the second isn't.
This is not absolute; you can encounter that form.
Stress timing plays a role, too.
Whether the article is used in such cases varies, mostly regionally, within Standard German.
Coby said,
October 11, 2025 @ 1:26 pm
It's simply that German distinguishes between the attributive and predicative forms of adjectives. The former are inflected, not only for number and gender, but also for whether or not they are preceded by a definite article, while the latter has the same uninflected form as the adverb. So ein gefährlicher Mann, der gefährliche Mann, der Mann is gefährlich; ein gefährliches Tier, das gefährliche Tier, das Tier is gefährlich. And the inflection applies to the comparative and superlative as well, hence gefährlichere(r,s), gefährlichste(r/s).
Yves Rehbein said,
October 11, 2025 @ 2:11 pm
Gesundheit! Here's a similar effect in English:
common – communist – * the most communistest.
Michael Watts said,
October 11, 2025 @ 7:32 pm
It's clear that John F. Kennedy said "ich bin ein Berliner". The observation was made in America that this is idiomatic for referring to the food, and that "ich bin Berliner" is idiomatic for referring to citizenship, and wikipedia seems to support both claims.
Wikipedia is also very clear that "this" is an "urban legend" and has been debunked. But they're not clear on what exactly has been debunked. By a strict reading, the "legend" part of the legend is that there was widespread laughter in response to JFK's speech. But that wasn't even part of the legend as it was transmitted to me; that was limited to "JFK committed a minor grammatical error that is easy to overlook when the speaker is a foreigner".
After reading wikipedia's treatment, I still don't know whether it's idiomatic to say "ich bin ein Berliner" when claiming citizenship in Berlin.
David Marjanović said,
October 12, 2025 @ 7:36 am
I'm not sure if it's idiomatic in Berlin… but there are places where it is, and that's all specifically within Standard German, not the local dialects.
Vanya said,
October 13, 2025 @ 7:17 am
the word "Berliner" is only used outside of Berlin.
And far from universally. In civilized parts of the German world (i.e. Bavaria/Austria) we call it a "Krapfen".
I still don't know whether it's idiomatic to say "ich bin ein Berliner" when claiming citizenship in Berlin.
It's idiomatic to me because, as we all know, JFK wasn't actually from Berlin. Adding the article helps underline that he is one member of a group of people identifiying as Berliners rather than just "a guy from Berlin".
Stephen said,
October 13, 2025 @ 9:46 am
@Philip Taylor
"Another food item I had not previously encountered"
Really? From other comments I know that you & I are of a similar age and grew up in the same part of England. When I was a boy this (a spheroid covered with sugar and having a jam filling) was the only meaning of doughnut.
Toroid shaped doughnut came along later and were known as, often labelled as, American doughnuts.
Philip Taylor said,
October 13, 2025 @ 2:23 pm
Well, I took the Wikipedia illustration of a Berliner as being reasonably authoritative, and if it was, then I would not regard one as a jam doughnut — a jam doughnut (as epitomised by Malcolm Barnecutt's classic version) has caster sugar on the top, not icing sugar …
(But really, I just didn't know of them as "Berliner"s, despite having spent quite some time in Germany).
Anselm Lingnau said,
October 13, 2025 @ 6:36 pm
(But really, I just didn't know of them as "Berliner"s, despite having spent quite some time in Germany).
This is because the jam doughnut has all sorts of regional names. For example, in the Rhine-Main area around Frankfurt, Wiesbaden, and Mainz, where I live, it is invariably referred to as a Kreppel (with a variety of spellings).
As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, in Berlin the delicacy in question is called a Pfannkuchen (pancake). Outside of Berlin this becomes Berliner Pfannkuchen (pancake from Berlin) because in those places a real Pfannkuchen is an actual (flat) pancake rather than a deep-fried doughnut, and that in turn is frequently abbreviated to Berliner.
David Marjanović said,
October 14, 2025 @ 5:39 am
…and "pancake" is Eierkuchen, literally "eggs cake", in Berlin.
As a civilized (thank you!) native speaker, I seriously think you're overthinking this.
Stephen said,
October 14, 2025 @ 5:31 pm
@Philip Taylor
"a jam doughnut … has caster sugar on the top, not icing sugar"
You are, IMO, being ridiculously pedantic.
I described a doughnut of our youth as being "a spheroid covered with sugar and having a jam filling" with no mention of the type of sugar. My recollection is that they had caster sugar on, but it might have been granulated sugar.
As a, say, 10 year old, if you were offered a jam doughnut with icing sugar on would you really have rejected it because of the type of sugar?
Philip Taylor said,
October 15, 2025 @ 4:52 am
My parenthetical second paragraph was intended to clarify the fact that the first para. was partially in jest, Stephen — even tho' I would not willingly buy a jam doughnut that had icing sugar where caster sugar was required, I would still accept that it was a jam doughnut. And having once (quite recently) had the misfortune to purchase and eat a jam doughnut with granulated sugar on the top, I would also studiously avoid these in the future — only caster sugar creates the perfect mouth feel, as Malcolm Barnecutt well know (and why I always buy theirs in packs of six, they are so good).
Statutory disclaimer : other brands of jam doughut are available.
Answer to last para. Probably not, but even at that age I already knew that Lincolnshire sausage meat made better sausage rolls than other kinds. I can even remember the physical location of the shop (towards the lower end of Eltham High Street, on the same side as the Parish Church) from which I would ask my mother to buy them.
Stephen said,
October 15, 2025 @ 4:45 pm
"My parenthetical second paragraph was intended to clarify the fact that the first para. was partially in jest"
With no tone of voice, etc, such information cannot be relied upon to come across in a purely text communication.