The noninfallibility yet utility of AIO
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Someone complained in an inappropriate and non sequiturish place that AIO (Artificial Intelligence Overview) did not definitively solve the difficult problem of the seeming non-Sinitic etymology of Japanese waka 若 ("young; youth") that he posed to it.
Cf. Wiktionary:
Japanese
Noun
Middle Sinitic
| Zhengzhang Shangfang |
/ȵiaX/ |
|---|---|
| Pan Wuyun |
/ȵiaX/ |
| Shao Rongfen |
/ȵʑiaX/ |
| Edwin Pulleyblank |
/ȵiaX/ |
| Li Rong |
/ȵiaX/ |
| Wang Li |
/ȵʑĭaX/ |
| Bernhard Karlgren |
/ȵʑi̯aX/ |
| Expected Mandarin Reflex |
rě |
| Expected Cantonese Reflex |
je5 |
This is a view adumbrated by Jonathan Smith:
If J. waka means/meant 'milord, miyounglord' as online indicates, then this writing is just based on the fact that the same character wrote a word 'you' in Chinese, "Middle Chinese" nyak or some such according to the Guangyun.
I put the question of the (non-)/Sinitic derivation of Japanese waka 若 ("young; youth") to AIO several times and it pointed me in the right direction each time.
As readers of Language Log are well aware, I'm a fan of this Google add-on and have repeatedly expressed my appreciation for its services. However, I do not expect it to be infallible, especially when dealing with questions that are notoriously bewildering. I am grateful for any assistance or inspiration that it may offer, as was the case with the origins of Japanese waka 若 ("young; youth").
I think it would be irresponsible and foolish of me to ask Google (i.e., AIO) to explain the phonotactics of biang. We realize before we ask that the antecedents of biang are not well known, so why trouble AIO with such a question?
And don't forget that AIO frequently reminds us that it is "experimental".
The burden of proof is on the user. Caveat lector.
Selected readings
- "AIO: brain extension" (1/2/25)
- "AI Overview: bits and pieces (German "ich" and Starbuck WA)" (10/11/24)
- "AI Overview: Snake River and Walla Walla" (10/10/24)
Chris Button said,
February 19, 2025 @ 10:08 pm
From the abridged Morohashi dictionary:
日本では弱と同音のところから、若年、わかいの意に用いる。
Victor Mair said,
February 19, 2025 @ 10:18 pm
Thank you, Morohashi; thank you, Chris Button.
Translated from the Japanese:
=====
In Japan, since it is the same sound as "weak," it is used to mean "young" or "young."
=====
Chau said,
February 19, 2025 @ 11:24 pm
“…solve the difficult problem of the seeming non-Sinitic etymology of Japanese waka 若 ("young; youth")…”
I am not AIO, but thanks to Chris Button for providing the lead, I picked up the hint from Morohashi that led me to dig into possible European source. It led me to find that Japanese wakai 弱い ‘weak’ may trace its origin to Old English wāc ‘weak’.
From Wiktionary:
Old English wāc
Etymology:
From Proto-West Germanic *waikw, from Proto-Germanic *waikwaz, whence also Old High German weih, Old Norse veikr.
wāc
1. pliant
2. weak
Quotation: 10th century, The Wanderer:
Ne sċeal nō tō hātheort, · ne tō hrædwyrde,
ne tō wāc wiga, · ne tō wanhȳdiġ,
ne tō forht, ne tō fæġen, · ne tō feohġīfre,
ne nǣfre ġielpes tō ġeorn, · ǣr hē ġeare cunne.
Should not be too wrathful, nor too hasty in words,
nor too weak warrior, nor too careless,
nor too fearful, nor too joyful, nor too eager for money,
nor ever too eager of pride, before he would know enough.
David Marjanović said,
February 20, 2025 @ 8:55 am
…with its vowel randomly shortened and to random other vowels added to the end? (Why not just one?)
katarina said,
February 20, 2025 @ 10:04 am
弱 "weak, fragile " also means " young* jn Classical Chinese.. (see 弱 Wiktionary, References )
, .
katarina said,
February 20, 2025 @ 12:00 pm
弱 has the same metaphor as English _tender_:
Chin. ruo 弱 "soft, weak" > "fragile, delicate" > "young"
Engl. _tender_ "soft" > "fragile, delicate" > "young"
as in "tender age" (young age).
The original meaning of 弱 is "soft".
The origin of Engl. _tender_ is Latin _tener_ "soft".
katarina said,
February 20, 2025 @ 12:52 pm
Both 若 and 弱 have the same sound _nyak_ in Middle Chinese.
and the same sound _ruo_ in Modern Standard Mandarin (Wiktionary).