Eric Doty duels with Grammarly
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Eric Doty dueling with Grammarly on LinkedIn:
me: in real time
grammarly: in real-time
me: k, in real-time
grammarly: in real time
me: i'm going to smash you in real time
grammarly: i'm going to smash you in real-time
I don't have a Grammarly account, so I can't check, but I wonder if maybe the issue was whether or not "real time" was in context as a prenominal modifier? On the other hand, that may be over-attributing consistency to (what Grammarly says is) an AI algorithm…
Update — Eric Doty writes:
I think Grammarly suggests the hyphenated version most of the time, even when it's a noun. But I've definitely had these infinite loop scenarios.
See also:
"Prescriptivism and national security", 10/4/2005
"Level(-)headedness", 3/3/2010
"Can '[adjective]-ass' occur predicatively?", 11/18/2013
"Most-hyphen-admired-space-men", 1/2/2020
"Hyphen conundrum", 5/9/2022
Daphne Preston-Kendal said,
August 31, 2024 @ 9:13 am
It’s my understanding that Grammarly is ‘classical AI’, i.e., it isn’t the sort of generative large language model based nonsense behind ChatGPT. There is a parser behind there, written in code which humans could understand – not a tangle of simulated neurons in a black box. If my understanding is correct, one should be able to expect some level of consistency from it.
That said, my only source for this is that Grammarly the company is known for being a Common Lisp shop. Common Lisp is a classic language for the ‘old’ kind of AI application, but it’s quite possible they’ve written an LLM-type thing in it.
Your hypothesis may be correct. Another (related) possibility is that it’s unable to distinguish between the computer science technical term ‘real-time’ (as opposed to e.g. ‘CPU hours’, which like ‘man-hours’ might sum the total amount of time spent by multiple entities working in parallel) and the everyday use.
Joe said,
August 31, 2024 @ 9:20 am
If the model is simply "assume whichever one the user wrote is wrong", that's probably more accurate than chance.
Terry K. said,
August 31, 2024 @ 9:29 am
I played with it. And it really does sometimes (in places that should be "real time") suggest a correction from one to the other, and then, later, after making the change and then doing something elsewhere in the text, suggest a correction the other direction. It seems to generally prefer "real-time", so my guess is that sometimes it goes with that default, and sometimes it recognizes it should be "real time", and it's inconsistent on which rule is uses, since it has to interpret the text.
Robert Coren said,
August 31, 2024 @ 9:57 am
I hope it's generally recognized in these precincts that "real time" is a noun phrase, and "real-time" is an adjective. This type of distinction seems to be fading out, to my distress.
(You kids can get off my lawn anytime now.)
Gregory Kusnick said,
August 31, 2024 @ 1:19 pm
This is somewhat adjacent to one of my personal hyphenation peeves: "low-Earth orbit", which seems to describe an orbit around "low Earth" (as distinct from Middle Earth?).
Coby said,
August 31, 2024 @ 4:06 pm
In connection with news stories about the Walz family there have been several items about "nonverbal leaning disorder", which — as the writers are quick to point out — does not imply that the child exhibiting it is nonverbal. That is, it is not "nonverbal (learning disorder)" but "(nonverbal learning) disorder" — difficulty with learning nonverbally. Of course there would be no ambiguity if it were written "nonverbal-learning disorder", but that would require psychologists to learn to hyphenate.
Steve Morrison said,
August 31, 2024 @ 8:16 pm
Gregory Kusnick: You in turn just activated one of my Tolkien-fanboy peeves! It should be “Middle-earth”, not “Middle Earth”!
Rodger C said,
September 1, 2024 @ 9:58 am
And for heaven's sake don't pronounce "Middle-earth" with the contours of "Middle East"!
RfP said,
September 2, 2024 @ 5:07 am
The number of times I have read and reread The Lord of the Rings is beyond counting. And yet I, who am usually able to spot a typo at six paces, have somehow missed a key element in the orthography.
Thank you so much to Steve Morrison and Rodger C for the much-needed wake-up call.
I guess this particular wanderer really was lost.
Robert Coren said,
September 3, 2024 @ 9:24 am
@Rodger C: I'm pretty sure I say "Middle-earth" and "Middle East" with the same pattern of emphasis, and I don't see why I shouldn't.
Rodger C said,
September 3, 2024 @ 11:49 am
I say "Middle-earth" like "Middletown," because it seems like the right reflex for the OE and ME.
RfP said,
September 3, 2024 @ 4:33 pm
@Robert Coren
I just learned from this thread why what was until yesterday our common pronunciation of this term is, if not wrong per se, inconsistent with the language of Tolkien’s world.
In my case, this was due to my somehow missing that he wasn’t writing about “Middle Earth,” but about “Middle-earth.”
Once I made the mental correction, the template from “Midgard” was inescapable.
The Wikipedia article on Middle-earth (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth) is helpful in pointing out why some of us might follow that pronunciation model:
Terry K. said,
September 3, 2024 @ 7:43 pm
I just recently got back from a trip that included visiting two cities called Middletown, and so that's a good example for me on how to pronounce Middle-earth. The later getting the hyphen I suppose because Middleearth looks odd with all the vowels and is hard to read.
This, is a different kind of thing than "real-time" as an adjective and "real time" as a noun.
Robert Coren said,
September 4, 2024 @ 9:45 am
OK, I get it now. Actually, I very rarely have occasion to say the name aloud, but I will now attempt to hear it in my head with different accentuation.
Jonathan Smith said,
September 4, 2024 @ 11:06 am
Well one could argue that "real time" is just "real (adj.)" modifying "time (n.)," and that the technical compound word meaning '(of e.g. media) corresponding to or constrained by time in the real world' should be written "real-time." Then one would want to write e.g. "real–time text" to flag one's understanding of both lexicalization and constituency :D
Jonathan Smith said,
September 4, 2024 @ 11:07 am
^ I meant double-hyphen "-" + "-" of course. n-dash would be flagrantly wrong
Duncan said,
September 22, 2024 @ 5:43 am
FWIW, there's also, "Reel time" a Filipino TV show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel_Time
I'm not Filipino and don't know how I came across that (maybe youtube non-English EDM related content?? or maybe related to the ghetto walk-thru I ended up watching one day??), and just had to look it up to even figure out what I was remembering (thus the link above; I wrongly had it pegged as a Linux video player!), but having once seen "Reel Time" and thought "how clever!", it's now impossible for me to see "real time" without thinking of it.
… And now maybe I've passed on that impossibility! =:^)
I guess it could equally as easily be a fishing show…