Spelling with Chinese character(istic)s, pt. 5

April 28, 2024 @ 6:02 am · Filed by under Language and religion, Transcription, Translation

« previous post | next post »

Serious questions about "religion" in Sinitic

Below the fold is for advanced specialists in Chinese philology, theology, and lexicography.  Even for them, it is recommended that readers prepare themselves by reviewing "Spelling with Chinese character(istic)s, pt. 4" (7/4/16).

[This is a guest post by IA]

I came across ěrlílìjǐng 爾釐利景 ("religion") last night. And today …
 
1) I read in two place — without corroboration — that 爾釐利景 was not coined by Péng Guāngyù 彭光譽 (aka Pung Quang Yu) but borrowed by him from Zēng Jìzé 曾纪泽 (another early Chinese [Qing Dynasty] diplomat to the West, eldest son of Zēng Guófān (曾國藩), a leading reformist minister at the Qing court):
1893年时任清廷驻美参赞的彭光誉出席在芝加哥举行的首届世界宗教议会，并在会上代表儒教发布宣言。此宣言中文题为《说教》，英文题为Confucianism[19]。文中没有采用“宗教”的日式译名，而是采用了外交官曾纪泽所倡用的音译法，称为“尔釐利景”，并对勘汉语字义，认为该词在中国当称作“巫”*，其神职当称作“祝”*。
(source)
[VHM: *wū / myag   巫 /("magus"); Victor Mair (1990) proposed that this is a loanword from Old Persian (maguš) (more at Wikipedia: Magus). (Mair, 1990; Mair, 2012). (source)
**zhù / tjuɡ  祝 / a man kneeling with open mouth (兄) next to an altar (示) ("to pray, to say prayers; words said in a prayer in a religious ceremony; wizard; warlock; sorcerer; temple attendant who burns joss sticks and candles") (source)]
 
[…] 此外,又有时任清朝外交官的曾纪泽以尔釐利景音译religion, […] (source)
 
2) As you intimated on the relevant language log page, the 爾+厘 was no doubt intended (but for whom would this not be impossibly recondite??) an initial /r/ of some sort.
 
(Different than a highly fricative [ʐ] of 日、熱 etc … If that is how either Peng Guangyu or Zeng Jize, the first from 武夷山 , and the second from near 湘潭 pronounced the 日母 initial in their respective versions of guanhua.) So, something along the lines of Orthodox Christianity's DIY new phonemes — 鿞 and so on. 
 
3) 彭光譽's 《説教》is online (both image and text formats) here, but the amusing/interesting quotes from it (below) are from the footnotes in Sun Jiang 孫江, "Representing Religion: 'Chinese Religions' at the 1893 Chicago World Parliament of Religions", Oriens Extremus, Vol. 54 (2015), pp. 59-84 (26 pages), which is here.
 
Underlining as in the original, not mine.
 
________________________
 
19 Peng Guangyu 1893, 1: 按西學凡所載景教流行中國碑之景教, 系西方古教, 已與今教不同, 英文名今教曰爾厘利景, 此仍用景字譯之, 取其音同易知, 但用本字尾音者, 如同文館丁冠西總教習, 其姓本爲馬爾丁, 入中國止用尾音, 曰丁, 是其例也。
 
20 Pung 1893, 375. Cf. Peng Guangyu 1893, 3a: 按此會所議者, 於英文為爾釐利景 (阿依而藹基藹窩恩)。明末歐羅巴人譯為華文, 曰教者是也。然華文教字之義, 虚字, 為英文題赤 (梯依愛西鴟) , 實字為英文音司黜廬克慎 (藹恩司梯阿尤西梯藹窩恩)。
 
21 Pung 1893, 375. Cf. Peng Guangyu 1893, 3a–b: 即儒教之名, 亦由佛老之徒自稱爲佛教、道教, 遂於綱常禮教加以儒名, 稱爲三教。儒者但謂二氏為異學, 回教人又稱儒教為大教, 皆若輩立名所以自別, 非中國本有此異名, 中國禮教一而已矣。
 
22 Pung 1893, 375–376. Cf. Peng Guangyu 1893, 3b–4a: 余考英文字書, 解爾釐利景為教人順神拜神愛神, 誠心事真神之理也。其人能知神事神言, 著書立說, 言未來事者, 曰樸羅肺特 (披阿窩披鴟依梯, 譯曰先知師, 或曰祭司), 能祝神及代人致祝者, 曰樸釐司特 (披阿藹依司梯, 譯曰神甫), 曰帕司特爾 (披愛司梯窩阿, 譯曰牧司), 或曰彌泥司特爾 (姆藹恩藹司梯依阿, 譯曰教士), 或曰彌森訥爾來 (姆藹司司藹窩恩愛阿喂, 譯曰教士)。然則爾釐利景於華文當稱為巫, 樸羅肺特、樸釐司特、帕司特爾、彌泥司特爾、彌森訥爾來,諸名於華文當稱為祝, 而預知未來事者, 於華文又當稱爲讖緯之學矣。
 
23 Pung 1893, 376. Cf. Peng Guangyu 1893, 4a–4b: 又考英文高德 (基窩諦), 明季歐羅巴人譯為華文, 曰上帝, 曰神, 曰真神, 曰獨一之神, 有名曰帕特爾 (披愛梯依阿), 又名耶和華 (再依鴟窩霏愛鴟), 有圖像, 有創世紀, 與佛老巫祝者為近。
 
24 Pung 1893, 378–379. Cf. Peng Guangyu 1893, 5b: 近世西國承學之士, 有謂孔子非爾釐利景者, 有謂中國無爾釐利景者, 謂孔子非爾釐利景, 是矣, 謂中國無爾釐利景殊非。

[end of guest post by IA]

——

Well, according to Peng Guangyu, did China have religion (ěrlílìjǐng 爾釐利景) or not?  Or did it only have doctrine / teaching (jiào 教)?

 

Selected readings

April 28, 2024 @ 6:02 am · Filed by under Language and religion, Transcription, Translation


6 Comments

  1. Richard Foltz said,

    April 28, 2024 @ 8:25 am

    I was told that my book Religions of the Silk Road had been translated into Chinese, but that it could not be published because it has the word "religion" in it. I asked why they didn't just change the title, but didn't receive a reply.

  2. Chris Button said,

    April 28, 2024 @ 8:26 am

    So, something along the lines of Orthodox Christianity's DIY new phonemes

    Maybe so, but the representation of "re-" in "religion" by 爾釐 is not so problematic in Early Mandarin:

    Without tones marked in Pulleyblank's reconstruction, 爾釐 is ɹɹ̩li

    Surely ɹɹ̩li for "re-" is just an attempt to get at that foreign sounding liquid onset, followed no-less by another liquid as the onset of the next syllable.

  3. Chris Button said,

    April 28, 2024 @ 8:58 am

    And that Early Mandarin would have been more like [ɻ] along the lines of modern Mandarin than [ɹ]. Hence the difficult correlation.

  4. Chris Button said,

    April 28, 2024 @ 9:02 am

    Pulleyblank uses the symbol r- rather than the inverted or retroflex one, but notes that it "corresponds to the retroflex r of Modern Mandarin".

  5. Chris Button said,

    April 28, 2024 @ 10:05 am

    So, in short (and this should really have been one post)…

    In terms of onsets, 爾釐 is effectively [ɻ͡l] as a representation of [ɹ], and that seems eminently reasonable.

  6. elias guerbas said,

    April 29, 2024 @ 7:42 am

    By the nature of unity and religious culture, it is not a bad thing at all, but a person must adhere to his faith

RSS feed for comments on this post