That one
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In a recent post on "Affective demonstratives", I quoted the curious codicil to the OED's entry on that:
"Also that one, used disparagingly of a woman."
and I wondered whether this disparaging demonstrative really always has a female referent. And sure enough, this evening's presidential debate provided a counterexample.
According to CNN's instant transcript, John McCain said:
By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.
You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me.
[A more extended video clip is here. And within a few hours, the T-shirts and bookbags (here, here, here), the Facebook page…
Meanwhile, according to Ben Smith at politico.com,
A Republican official emails, on background:
The most memorable line of the night belonged to John McCain. McCain pointed out that “That One” vote for the 05 energy bill. Look for Republicans to note in coming days that “That One” also voted for higher taxes at least 94 times; “That One” has associations with unrepentant terrorists, etc…
Given how fast Obama partisans are already selling "That One" campaign paraphernalia, the McCain campaign might want to think twice about this tactic. ]
Helma said,
October 7, 2008 @ 11:31 pm
The most infamous example (to my mind) in recent history of the (dis)affective demonstrative was Bill Clinton's 'that woman'. It seems we have a new one today.
John Laviolette said,
October 8, 2008 @ 1:48 am
My vague memories of "that one" being used as a disparaging reference to another person is that it's pretty much always used by a rival of some kind: a mother in reference to her son's girlfriend, one woman in reference to another competing for the affections of the same man. And I seem to recall this was mostly in older works (I'm thinking I saw it mainly in heavily-stereotyped genre fiction from the '40s/'50s and a couple Victorian-era novels.) Although I seem to recall it cropping up in a Harry Potter novel, too.
My impression is that it's primarily used as an insult by someone who's under social pressure to be polite. Thus, proper Victorian mothers insulting an adventuress, two-dimensional female stereotypes insulting a a rival, a mother insulting her son's fiancée in a children's book. For males, it usually turns into an actual insult, although perhaps a clean one ("That rogue!" "That scoundrel!") I do think I've seen one or two uses of "that one" to refer to a male rival prior to McCain's use, though.
I believe that, as stereotypes and taboos loosened and women started being portrayed in situations other than romantic rivalries, "that one" started to decrease in frequency and more actual insults, even obscene ones, started appearing. The women I know usually refer to female work or social rivals as "that bitch" or worse.
Ramanujan said,
October 8, 2008 @ 2:16 am
McCain's usage sounded jarring to me, less because of the animus it clearly conveyed, but more because I am unaccustomed to hearing it in American English. I associate it with more the varieties of English spoken by the English-speaking segments of South Asian societies, though it might be "this one" more often than "that one."
kid bitzer said,
October 8, 2008 @ 2:46 am
i suspect that this resulted from failing to set up a pre-rehearsed line in which "that one" would have had a nominal antecedent.
rewrite as follows:
"It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies.
You know which Senator voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me."
if he had remembered to ask "which senator?", then the "that one" would have made perfect sense, and sounded very different.
in fact, i think i've found what mccain was trying to parody. on august 6, obama did an interview with a journalist named ralston, during which he said:
"I would point out that in December of last year, we had a vote to strip out those tax breaks for oil companies, there was one Senator that did not vote on that measure, and that was John McCain."
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=8792314
kid bitzer said,
October 8, 2008 @ 3:12 am
…on the other hand, i strongly doubt that the mccain campaign will ever confirm this, by saying "john mccain meant to ask "which senator?" and then say "that one, i.e. that senator", but he got confused and forgot to set up his own punch-line correctly."
so this has to remain in the realm of speculation. but at the same time, i think linguistic speculation directed towards explaining a rare use of affective demonstratives is misguided, if that's not really the syntax mccain intended anyhow.
Mark Liberman said,
October 8, 2008 @ 6:14 am
John Laviolette: My impression is that it's primarily used as an insult by someone who's under social pressure to be polite.
That seems to fit the facts nicely, including perhaps a period of time when this phrase was used mainly in reference to women.
kid bitzer: i suspect that this resulted from failing to set up a pre-rehearsed line in which "that one" would have had a nominal antecedent.
Perhaps — though if the line were delivered with the same sneer, I don't think that a nominal antecedent would change its force much.
Meanwhile, the American entrepreneurial spirit lives on: http://www.thatone08.com, a web site and T-shirt shop up and running within hours of the debate. More T-shirts, book bags etc. here and here. And a facebook page too…
kid bitzer said,
October 8, 2008 @ 7:50 am
"I don't think that a nominal antecedent would change its force much."
oh sure–as a matter of snideness and incivility it would be the same.
but as a matter of syntax it would be very different, i'd think.
Ralph Hickok said,
October 8, 2008 @ 8:48 am
Over at Salon, Joan Walsh says:
But I think it was more like something a cranky baby sitter would say — Angry Uncle Joe, or Mr. Wilson. "You know who broke the coffee table? That one."
http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/
Ya know, that that one - polyglot conspiracy said,
October 8, 2008 @ 9:28 am
[…] Then what do I do? I pull up my RSS feed, and I see that Liberman has, quite expectedly, already written about it. […]
eric said,
October 8, 2008 @ 10:06 am
It is indeed found in a Harry Potter novel. From Goblets of Fire:
"Oooh there's a tragedy," Hermione snapped as Fleur went out into the entrance hall. "She really thinks a lot of herself, that one, doesn't she?"
Amused Canuck said,
October 8, 2008 @ 10:44 am
On first read through, I found it amusing. In my head I pictured McCain so infused with childish bitterness and hatred for Obama, he couldn't bring himself to specifically identify Obama. In contrast to purposefully being demeaning.
It also has elements of a (admittedly stereotyped) "down south" feel:
"Who hurt ya Johnny?"
"Th-that one, that there black man"
Philip Spaelti said,
October 8, 2008 @ 10:54 am
@eric: It is indeed found in a Harry Potter novel. From Goblets of Fire:
Note however that this is put in the mouth of Fleur who is a French speaker. In this case I take this to be an imitation of someone who speaks with a French accent. (In French "celle la" is much more common.)
hjælmer said,
October 8, 2008 @ 11:02 am
@Philip Spaelti
No, Hermione says it, who is British and hyper-articulate.
John Laviolette said,
October 8, 2008 @ 11:38 am
@eric:
Funny, I was thinking there was a later use by Mrs. Weasley, again in reference to Fleur. But I don't have the books, so I can't check.
Linda said,
October 8, 2008 @ 12:05 pm
That's funny – I took it to be one of those senior moments when you suddenly can't remember the name of a grandchild so you say, "that one!"
KCinDC said,
October 8, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
Any connection to Spanish ése?
KCinDC said,
October 8, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
I suppose "parallel" would be a better word than "connection".
Kensy Cooperrider said,
October 8, 2008 @ 1:24 pm
It's interesting to think about two minimally contrasting alternatives Senator McCain could have used. McCain could have said: "This one." Using "this" would imply proximity on all kind of levels, where "that" implies distance. Deictic words aren't just about space (as Bill Hanks has argued), they are also about more abstract dimensions like social distance. Or, he could have said: "That guy." Using "guy" would have implied that Senator Obama is a male human being, where "one" seems to stay mum on the issue. I'm thinking of the pet-shop scenario where a little kid points to the goldfish and says: "I want that one!" Or similar scenarios with adults in pastry shops.
As a gesture dude, I'm sorta sad that no one is talking about the fact that there were two pointing gestures toward Obama in this sequence (first, with the "who" and then later the "that one"). I think the pointing gestures add to the conspiratorial feel of the "that one" reference. Actually, without the pointing gestures the reference may well have been ambiguous.
Maria said,
October 8, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
Maureen Dowd in her column interprets "That one" as a combination of "That woman" and "The one". Which I'm sure it was not.
It reminded me, among other things, of "that guy", as used in phrases like "You don't want to be *that guy*", the one who does something that makes the rest of the group shun him.
handsofaten said,
October 8, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
Marc Ambinder reports that this is actually a part of McCain's regular stump speech, which is normally set up more or less as kid bitzer speculates above. IMO, it sounds much less offensive (and weird) when preceded by something like "which senator."
Keith Gaughan said,
October 8, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
@Maria For what it's worth, 'one' can be used in Irish English at least to refer to a woman, but it's typically qualified somehow. It might be more correctly spelled 'waan' in this context though. For instance, it'd be typical to refer to a daughter or girlfriend as 'the young waan', or for an an Irishman to refer to his mother indirectly as 'the oul' waan', and rather than saying 'that woman', it's typical to say 'yer waan' or 'yer waan there'.
None of this, mind, is meant disparagingly, and whether this found its way into American English is a matter for those who know more about these things than me.
Kate said,
October 8, 2008 @ 5:06 pm
Maybe I'm too young to tune in to the linguistic contexts we're talking about here, but I thought Polyglot Conspiracy nailed it with the comment that "Axes of oppression are aligned."
PS said,
October 8, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
Perhaps sensitivities have heightened since Governor Palin said that Senator Obama sees America differently than us. Is this a racist comment along with Senator McCain's reference to Senator Obama as "That one"? Many people think so, many know something is distasteful about Senator McCain's reference but are not sure why they feel that way.
I am an English instructor and not a political scientist or sociologist. But I think I have an inkling as to why many people were taken aback by the comment. Like Kensy Cooperrider mentioned, we say "this" or "this one" to indicate a sense of nearness. We use "that" or "that one" to indicate a sense of distance. The term "that one" is mostly used as an anaphoric function (i.e. backward pointing). The combination of "distance" and "backward pointing" serves to isolate the referent from the speaker and his audience. Hence, where "this one" can be used as a term of affection, "that one" is often used as a term of derision.
Is that enough to make it a racist comment?
Keith Gaughan said,
October 8, 2008 @ 8:31 pm
@PS: It is when it's said with the degree of bile McCain appeared to say it with.
freereed said,
October 8, 2008 @ 8:51 pm
In Ireland the phrase is, when talking disparagingly of another not present, is "Yer one"… er "yer wan"
"yer wan went on the piss last night"
but still… there is the possessive. although "that one" is behaving badly… still there is the community … one of us
Maryellen MacDonald said,
October 8, 2008 @ 11:23 pm
The thing that struck me about McCain's "that one" usage, which is not incompatible with many other points made here, is that it is a type of expression that's very common in the elderly. In part owing to word finding difficulties but maybe also to declines in pragmatic abilities, the speech of elderly adults is known to contain more vague reference (on average) compared to younger adults' speech. Examples include pronouns (used infelicitously, without nearby antecedents), vague NPs like "the thing", circumlocutions such as "the thing that heats it up," and…demonstratives like "this one" and "that one". So undoubtedly McCain was trying to be disparaging here, but the exact choice of phrase may have been influenced by the increasing frequency of expressions of this sort in the elderly, especially when under stress.
Clayton Burns said,
October 8, 2008 @ 11:53 pm
At The Daily Beast, the video has been suitably torqued up so it seems even more exciting than it is. Proof of how pervasive language insensitivity is, or is becoming. Language Log might consider establishing video capacity in an organized way. For example, Steven Pinker's recent Friday night keynote address at UBC at the HECC conference was extremely good, and some important linguistic issues emerged in the questions. Video will be posted soon, I have been told.
Elise said,
October 9, 2008 @ 1:16 am
Echoing Maryellen MacDonald, I also thought that McCain's "that one" sounded rather elderly. It reminded me of something my grandmother, who referred to the orange chicken from the nearby Chinese restaurant as "orange business," might have said.
Joe said,
October 9, 2008 @ 2:28 am
The phrase "that one" also sounds a bit jarring to me, in context. If he had said, for example, "that guy" it would have sounded a bit informal, but normal.
When someone says "that one" in that way it, in my mind, refers to an object, not a person. That's probably why it seemed off when he used the phrase to refer to Obama, because it's in some way objectifying them (which would, in turn, help make sense of why it might more often be used of women).
Of course, there's always the alternate explanation is that McCain reads the Language Log and wanted to give us a new example….
DaveL said,
October 9, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
I've known a few women, not all of them elderly, who referred to themselves as "this one," and to other people as "that one." I remember finding it odd, and can't think of anything they had in common other than being women, and being in Massachusetts. Perhaps an Irish influence, though they weren't all Irish.
The Mutt said,
October 9, 2008 @ 2:16 pm
It reminded me most of the conversation I overheard 1,000 times in my youth:
"You got a colored maid? I thought you hated the coloreds."
"Aw, Beaulah's okay. She's one of the good ones."
not completely useless said,
October 9, 2008 @ 11:28 pm
In my experience, "that one" is used pretty much as Joan Walsh describes (noted above by Ralph Hickok). Someone of relatively high status (babysitter, adult) uses it, generally when annoyed over the behavior of someone of relatively low status (typically a child). The elder person apparently feels insulted by the younger, and uses the impersonal label as a way of demeaning them to someone in authority (the child's parent or another adult friend).
I agree with kid bitzer above that, if the question "which senator" had preceded "that one", then the label would have a completely different affect. But it's not clear to me whether the line was gaffed or it's just McCain's insulting manner of speech directed at a black man.
Who is the Sarah Palin of the Canterbury Tales? « Corpus linguistics said,
November 17, 2011 @ 7:58 pm
[…] Liberman's various posts on the Language Log: here and here (and maybe here; Chris Potts also has a follow-up on the LL […]