Day(s) of the dead
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Today's Frazz:
The Day of the Dead (Spanish: Día de (los) Muertos) is a holiday traditionally celebrated on November 1 and 2, though other days, such as October 31 or November 6, may be included depending on the locality. The multi-day holiday involves family and friends gathering to pay respects and remember friends and family members who have died.
Philip Taylor said,
November 2, 2024 @ 1:23 pm
Is there a connection between "The Day of the Dead" and "All Hallows' Eve" (a,k,a, "Halloween") ? They appear to involve similar concepts and are very close together in time … There is also, of course, Thanh Minh in Vietnamese culture, but that is on a very different date.
Mark Liberman said,
November 2, 2024 @ 1:51 pm
@Philip Taylor: "s there a connection between "The Day of the Dead" and "All Hallows' Eve" (a,k,a, "Halloween") ? ":
Wikipedia: "Views differ on whether the festivity has indigenous pre-Hispanic roots, whether it is a more modern adaptation of an existing European tradition, or a combination of both as a manifestation of syncretism. The beginning of the Christian observance of Allhallowtide, including All Saints' Day and its vigil, as well as All Souls' Day, is observed on the same days in places like Spain and Southern Europe, and elsewhere in Christendom."
Keit Gaughan said,
November 2, 2024 @ 1:54 pm
No, there's no connection, or at least not a direct one. Halloween is derivative of to the Gaelic festival of Samhain, which coincided with Allhallowtide. Whether latter was purposely timed to coincide with the former is a matter of debate. From what I've read, Dio de los Muertos has native pre-Hispanic routes, and the main connections are that they fall at the same time of the year and deal with similar themes, but are otherwise independent.
Barbara Phillips Long said,
November 2, 2024 @ 1:58 pm
@Philip Taylor
On the merging of traditions, from the (U.S.) Library of Congress:
The holiday traces its roots to the rituals of Indigenous peoples of Mexico, where skulls were crafted in spectacular ways to honor deceased relatives. When Spanish conquistadors arrived in the 16th century, these traditions merged with Catholic observances, shifting to align with All Saints’ Day and All Souls’ Day. In Catholic traditions that go back for centuries, these have been celebrated on Nov. 1 and Nov. 2, respectively. All Saints’ Day also has been long known as All Hallows’ Day — which, in Western Europe, long ago piggybacked onto the Celtic holiday of Samhain. This was a festival in which people would, in the darkening of the year, light bonfires and wear costumes to ward off ghosts. Over time, the two holidays combined. The night before All Hallows’ Day became known as All Hallows’ Eve. Or, as we now call it, Halloween.
In the Americas, this blending of beliefs gave way to communal celebrations that view death as part of the life cycle.
So although the Día de los Muertos relates to Halloween, the two have distinct beliefs and practices that should not be confused.
“Just as Halloween’s pre-Christian roots are Celtic, the Día de los Muertos has roots in Indigenous Mexican and Central American cultures,” said Stephen Winick, a folklife specialist at the Library’s American Folklife Center. “It’s generally a more solemn and reflective holiday, with a greater focus on remembrance of ancestors and deceased loved ones.”
https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2024/10/the-multinational-traditions-of-halloween-and-dia-de-los-muertos/
J.W. Brewer said,
November 2, 2024 @ 3:18 pm
I don't know the literature and there are obviously differences of scholarly opinion but the basic wiki article that myl links provides some substantial support for the thesis that like so much Authentic Traditional Folklore in other places around the globe the "indigenous" aspects of the Dia de los Muertos were largely fabricated from whole cloth in fairly recent historical times in service of a modern ideological/political agenda. Which of course does not affect the sincerity or good faith of those currently-living people who just learned the customs from their own parents/grandparents and did not critically inquire into the deeper history.
That at least makes it more "authentic" than e.g. the good old American custom of square dancing. Circa 1975 me and my elementary school classmates at the American School in Japan were given instruction in the school gymnasium in square dancing (which essentially none of us had learned organically from our parents or older siblings or pre-expat local Stateside communities) so that we could demonstrate our Authentic Traditional Folkloric customs to a Japanese audience as part of a cultural exchange with a Japanese school up north in Fukushima (nice place, not yet known for a nuclear reactor mishap).
AntC said,
November 2, 2024 @ 3:57 pm
@PT, when I was growing up (in London, 1950's/60's) there was no such thing as Halloween. I regard it as a regrettable U.S. import.
When I moved to Yorkshire, I encountered Mischief Night which was by then stabilised to November 4th, and typically involved gangs of kids raiding each others' bonfire stocks. 'Trick or treat' was part of the mischief, though I think even by then parents were cautious about kids approaching strangers' doors.
Terry K. said,
November 2, 2024 @ 8:55 pm
Both have a connection with All Saints Day and All Souls Day. The other traditions that have contributed are quite separate, though.
Terry K. said,
November 2, 2024 @ 9:07 pm
I should have said, a connection in origin.
Philip Taylor said,
November 3, 2024 @ 3:33 am
The article at https://naatikmexico.org/blog/all-hallows-eve-and-day-of-the-dead appears to shed considerable light on these matters, and also notes (in passing) that "All Saints Day […] was moved to May 13th" (before being moved again to November 1st), thus causing it occur at around the same time as Vietnamese Thanh Minh.
Rodger C said,
November 3, 2024 @ 11:27 am
The narrative I was taught was:
Ancient Celts: "Let's celebrate the transition between the years with a holiday that blurs the boundaries of living & dead and of allowed & disallowed!"
Christian missionaries: "We tried to abolish it, but the people won't give up their fun. Let's get them up the next morning to cleanse their mental palates with a celebration of all the saints in heaven."
The people: "All right, but what about my granny? I know she's in heaven, but she's not on any list!"
The Church: *sigh* Okay, the day after that…"
Benjamin E. Orsatti said,
November 3, 2024 @ 12:12 pm
There's a day to honor, and seek intercession from, all the Saints in Heaven; that's "All Saints Day" — November 1st. "All Souls Day" is November 2nd, and that's when you pray for all the departed, especially the souls in Purgatory. "Halloween" is just "All Hallow's Eve" — the day before All Saints Day.
Not really much more complicated than that.
J.W. Brewer said,
November 3, 2024 @ 3:34 pm
The account Rodger C mentions is listed in wikipedia with the phrasing "Some scholars propose …," which I think may be a polite euphemism suggesting that the idea is not taken very seriously in more recent specialist literature. The standardization of November 1 as the general Western date occurred via the joint efforts of Charlemagne's successors and the Vatican, and while one certainly cannot exclude the possibility that they were universalizing a Celtic-fringe innovation, the causal chain suggested for that involves some handwaving. "Alcuin was influential with the Carolingians and he was from Northumberland! Which wasn't Celtic by then but was subject to ongoing-if-not-very-well-documented Celtic influence!" Etc. etc. The historicity of the rival origin-in-Rome story (because November 1 was supposedly the day on which such and such Pope had consecrated an oratory dedicated to All Saints in the earlyish 8th century) is also apparently disputed, FWIW.
Putting All Souls' Day on the day after the now-standardized Nov. 1 All Saints' Day is said to have been an innovation of the early 11th century, originating in the Abbey of Cluny, which is quite some distance from the Celtic Fringe but was at the time one of more influential Benedictine establishments in the world.
Peter Grubtal said,
November 3, 2024 @ 4:26 pm
AntC, W Brewer have it right: although I don't recall it dealing with Halloween or Day of the Dead, Hobsbawn's "The Invention of Tradition" is the standard work on the phenomenon.
A Swede told me that their Santa Lucia was the invention of a newspaper in the 1920's.
When I was a kid in England, the build-up to Nov. 5th overshadowed everything at this time of year.
It's amazing how Halloween has been adopted in Germany (although this year was thankfully a bit quieter): some say to the eclipsing of local traditions such as Heilige Drei Könige. It's (like the high-school prom, and graduations with mortar-board flinging) the influence of US films, I imagine.
Rodger C said,
November 4, 2024 @ 11:35 am
When I was a kid in England, the build-up to Nov. 5th overshadowed everything at this time of year.
Leave it to the English to absorb an entire set of seasonal festivities into a holiday based on Catholic-bashing.
Actually, IIRC, Iona and Peter Opie sad that Nov. 5 was celebrated in southern and eastern England and Oct. 31 in the north, the west, Scotland, and Wales.
Rodger C said,
November 4, 2024 @ 11:37 am
As for J.W. Brewer's note, perhaps the fault in the narrative I quoted lies in using "Celtic" with too broad a referent.