{"id":55106,"date":"2022-06-25T17:22:47","date_gmt":"2022-06-25T22:22:47","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=55106"},"modified":"2022-07-08T06:28:41","modified_gmt":"2022-07-08T11:28:41","slug":"sino-semitica-of-cinnamon-cassia-and-katsura-and-old-sinitic-reconstructions-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=55106","title":{"rendered":"Sino-Semitica: of cinnamon, cassia, and katsura and Old Sinitic reconstructions, part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>If you stroll through the grounds of the Morris Arboretum of the University of Pennsylvania, you may come upon this phenomenal tree:<\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"><a href=\"http:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/~bgzimmer\/katsura.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" title=\"Click to embiggen\" src=\"http:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/~bgzimmer\/katsura.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"475\" \/><\/a><!--more--><\/p>\n<p>It is the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.pabigtrees.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/www.pabigtrees.com\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0n74C1fQa0_9YTG3qTyXj8\">champion<\/a>\u00a0katsura tree of the state of Pennsylvania, truly an astonishing specimen.<\/p>\n<p>From reading Japanese literature, I was familiar with the name \"katsura\", but I didn't know the equivalent in Chinese or English, and I didn't know what it looked like.\u00a0 When Zihan Guo told me that the kanji for katsura is \u6842, I was stunned, because it immediately called to mind some exciting discussions about that plant that we had had on Language Log over the years (see below).<\/p>\n<p><b>katsura<\/b><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">\u304b\u3064\u3089 \/ \u30ab\u30c4\u30e9 \u6842<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/%E6%A1%82#Japanese\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/%25E6%25A1%2582%23Japanese&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0D9AidMe_E1QUmt-A5PIHi\">Wiktionary<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\"><i>Cinnamomum cassia<\/i><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Cinnamomum_cassia\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Cinnamomum_cassia&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0CYtKnYvZd-gdE-r-G6FzJ\">Wikipedia<\/a>:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">&#8230;\u00a0<b>Chinese cassia<\/b>\u00a0or\u00a0<b>Chinese cinnamon<\/b>, is an\u00a0evergreen\u00a0tree originating in southern China, and widely cultivated there and elsewhere in South and Southeast Asia (India, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam). It is one of several species of\u00a0<i>Cinnamomum<\/i>\u00a0used primarily for their aromatic bark, which is used as a\u00a0spice. The buds are also used as a spice, especially in India, and were once used by the ancient Romans.<\/p>\n<p>See \"<a title=\"Permanent link to Sino-Semitica: of gourds, cassia, and hemp and Old Sinitic reconstructions\" href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=45944\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"bookmark noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D45944&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3VKy9FH6T-UnWOiet2_f9s\">Sino-Semitica: of gourds, cassia, and hemp and Old Sinitic reconstructions<\/a>\" (2\/1\/20), where I introduced an old, learned German friend named\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Elfriede_Knauer\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Elfriede_Knauer&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw33snosT-DBDQz-lQuY6a6e\">Elfriede Regina (Kezia) Knauer<\/a>\u00a0(1926-2010) who was very much aware of the Semitic origins of her nickname (Kezia is a biblical name of Hebrew origin; she was one of Job's three beautiful daughters) and often asked me about its Sinitic parallels (see\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Elfriede_Knauer\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Elfriede_Knauer&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw33snosT-DBDQz-lQuY6a6e\">here<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNQDqZCg65djjnoyCwvbJPXLjqaelw%3A1580564877152&amp;source=hp&amp;ei=jYE1XrqMB-XF_QaB_5HgDQ&amp;q=kezia+knauer&amp;oq=kezia+knauer&amp;gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.1320.6820..7287...1.0..0.86.888.12......0....1..gws-wiz.......35i39j0i131j0j0i67.AVcrnXkpLwU&amp;ved=0ahUKEwj6hq6Av7DnAhXlYt8KHYF_BNwQ4dUDCAc&amp;uact=5\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/www.google.com\/search?sxsrf%3DACYBGNQDqZCg65djjnoyCwvbJPXLjqaelw%253A1580564877152%26source%3Dhp%26ei%3DjYE1XrqMB-XF_QaB_5HgDQ%26q%3Dkezia%2Bknauer%26oq%3Dkezia%2Bknauer%26gs_l%3Dpsy-ab.3..0i22i30.1320.6820..7287...1.0..0.86.888.12......0....1..gws-wiz.......35i39j0i131j0j0i67.AVcrnXkpLwU%26ved%3D0ahUKEwj6hq6Av7DnAhXlYt8KHYF_BNwQ4dUDCAc%26uact%3D5&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1TysAsW4pZABTtAvLJEoDk\">here<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Kezia\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Kezia&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3v9bES4uhIIa1ZxTbYzvLk\">here<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/Kezia\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/Kezia&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3S8mVKgIgcjJiOkE_dELMb\">here<\/a>, and\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Keziah_(name)\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Keziah_(name)&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2-b4a0krUbbCwOnlIsTsHL\">here<\/a>).\u00a0\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Hebrew_language\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Hebrew_language&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2aYZuZ8faOKOSF6LZXKDXS\">Hebrew<\/a>\u00a0<em><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title=%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%A2%D7%94&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title%3D%25D7%25A7%25D7%25A6%25D7%2599%25D7%25A2%25D7%2594%26action%3Dedit%26redlink%3D1&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0RAVflCxFq2e2zLGL4VOp0\">\u05e7\u05b0\u05e6\u05b4\u05d9\u05e2\u05b8\u05d4<\/a><\/em>\u200e (\u201ccassia tree\u201d). Compare\u00a0<em><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/cassia#English\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/cassia%23English&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3UviqtjLhHYElMPI7Oks8j\">cassia<\/a><\/em>. From\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Latin\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Latin&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0LGpUkAofCdb8O3iLfFTc_\">Latin<\/a>\u00a0<em><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/cassia#Latin\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/cassia%23Latin&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0gCdf7hyEKh6cb60LsrvGC\">cassia<\/a><\/em>\u00a0(\u201ccinnamon\u201d), from\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Ancient_Greek\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Ancient_Greek&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw32rKs8YI6Uj4xEZ90QdBXq\">Ancient Greek<\/a>\u00a0<em><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title=%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%B1&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title%3D%25CE%25BA%25CE%25B1%25CF%2583%25CF%2583%25CE%25AF%25CE%25B1%26action%3Dedit%26redlink%3D1&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1Zp6FiwWn5tu4jU-24QRXo\">\u03ba\u03b1\u03c3\u03c3\u03af\u03b1<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%B1#Ancient_Greek\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/%25CE%25BA%25CE%25B1%25CF%2583%25CE%25AF%25CE%25B1%23Ancient_Greek&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2DnFgPR-u5yFD4RhS58kDx\">\u03ba\u03b1\u03c3\u03af\u03b1<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title=%CE%BA%CE%AC%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%B1&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title%3D%25CE%25BA%25CE%25AC%25CF%2583%25CE%25B9%25CE%25B1%26action%3Dedit%26redlink%3D1&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0W3iwVPOCfun4oZ4qBVS84\">\u03ba\u03ac\u03c3\u03b9\u03b1<\/a><\/em>\u00a0(kass\u00eda, kas\u00eda, k\u00e1sia), from\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Hebrew_language\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Hebrew_language&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2aYZuZ8faOKOSF6LZXKDXS\">Hebrew<\/a>\u00a0<em><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title=%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%A2%D7%94&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title%3D%25D7%25A7%25D7%25A6%25D7%2599%25D7%25A2%25D7%2594%26action%3Dedit%26redlink%3D1&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0RAVflCxFq2e2zLGL4VOp0\">\u05e7\u05b0\u05e6\u05b4\u05d9\u05e2\u05b8\u05d4<\/a><\/em>\u200e (q\u0259\u1e63\u012b\u02bf\u0101), from\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Aramaic\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Aramaic&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw16z75xfTi9AYEPXx2az9Ll\">Aramaic<\/a>\u00a0<em><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title=%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%A2%D7%AA%D7%90&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title%3D%25D7%25A7%25D7%25A6%25D7%2599%25D7%25A2%25D7%25AA%25D7%2590%26action%3Dedit%26redlink%3D1&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639814000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2NDCZ1H-6l4CVjGtpn_heZ\">\u05e7\u05b0\u05e6\u05b4\u05d9\u05e2\u05b2\u05ea\u05b8\u05d0<\/a><\/em>\u200e (q\u0259\u1e63\u012b\u02bf\u0103t\u0101), from\u00a0<em><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%A2#Aramaic\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/%25D7%25A7%25D7%25A6%25D7%25A2%23Aramaic&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw368P-8d2jUs9GoUxVlOAtQ\">\u05e7\u05b0\u05e6\u05b7\u05e2<\/a><\/em>\u200e (q\u1e63a\u02bf, \u201cto cut off\u201d) (<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/cassia#English\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/cassia%23English&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0fa74ne8tTemFCcXOZRwSX\">source<\/a>).<\/p>\n<p>That \"Sino-Semitica\" post provides many other references, including this addendum by John Huehnergard [2\/17\/20]:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">Hebrew\u00a0<em>q\u01dd\u1e63i\u0295\u0101<\/em>\u00a0is unlikely to refer to\u00a0<em>Cinnamomum cassia<\/em>, but rather to a plant found in Ethiopia or Arabia; a recent discussion of the Hebrew word is Benjamin J. Noonan,\u00a0<em>Non-Semitic Loanwords in the Hebrew Bibl<\/em>e (2019) 196-97 (who, along the way, refutes a proposed Chinese etymology for\u00a0<em>q\u01dd\u1e63i\u0295\u0101<\/em>). As Noonan also rightly notes, the word is not found in Aramaic apart from Jewish sources referring to the Hebrew word, so it's not a real Aramaic word.<\/p>\n<p>Also see this key\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=39061#comment-1552669\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D39061%23comment-1552669&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2nDEmBVuB0NQTW5W8D5_Ct\">comment<\/a>\u00a0by Chris Button (cf.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=41045#comment-1558206\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D41045%23comment-1558206&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0UGgyiXaXVXSsARo8xSKG-\">here<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=45181#comment-1569152\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D45181%23comment-1569152&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2IPNQTydWlbHFJOLx1SG8N\">here<\/a>, and\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=42828#comment-1563665\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D42828%23comment-1563665&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3c9x52G8q7MiqJSMEh7cog\">here<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">My take is that labiovelars alternating with velars provides evidence for uvulars in Old Chinese. A nice xiesheng series in that regard is that of \u572d EMC kw\u025bj &lt; OC *q\u00e1j which includes unrounded words like \u8857 ka\u0268j &lt; *kr\u00e1j and also has \u6842 kw\u025bj\u02b0 &lt; *q\u00e1js which quite possibly came from earlier *qj\u00e1ts via an association with Hebrew qetsia \"cassia\" with its uvular onset.<\/p>\n<p>To which I\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=39061#comment-1552682\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D39061%23comment-1552682&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1iwLl1bEjCB-pPPWpxN8dY\">repl<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=39061#comment-1552682\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D39061%23comment-1552682&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1iwLl1bEjCB-pPPWpxN8dY\">ied<\/a>:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">I like what you say about Old Sinitic \"\u6842 kw\u025bj\u02b0 &lt; *q\u00e1js which quite possibly came from earlier *qj\u00e1ts via an association with Hebrew qetsia 'cassia'\". I had a learned old German friend, Elfriede Regina Knauer, whose nickname was Kezia (pronounced \"Ketzia\"), and she always suspected that it had something to do with Sinitic gu\u00ec \u6842: 1. osmanthus; sweet osmanthus 2. cassia; Chinese cinnamon quotations \u25b2 \u8499\u820d\u883b\u4ee5\u6912\u3001\u8591\u3001\u6842\u548c\u70f9\u800c\u98f2\u4e4b\u3002[Classical Chinese, trad.] \u8499\u820d\u86ee\u4ee5\u6912\u3001\u59dc\u3001\u6842\u548c\u70f9\u800c\u996e\u4e4b\u3002[Classical Chinese, simp.] From: Tang Dynasty, Fan Chuo, Manshu, chapter 7, part 7 M\u00e9ngsh\u00e8 M\u00e1n y\u01d0 ji\u0101o, ji\u0101ng, gu\u00ec h\u00e9 p\u0113ng \u00e9r y\u01d0n zh\u012b. [Pinyin] The Mengshe Barbarians use pepper, ginger, and cinnamon to boil as a drink. 3. true cinnamon; Saigon cinnamon; Indonesian cinnamon 4. laurel; bay laurel 5. of or relating to Guilin, Guangxi, or the region of the Gui River 6. A surname\u200b. (<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/%E6%A1%82\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/%25E6%25A1%2582&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2UBknVfgWA33qDkP135any\">source<\/a>)<\/p>\n<p>The thrill of seeing that enormous, grand, spreading\u00a0<i>katsura<\/i>\u00a0tree in Morris Arboretum &#8212; a type of tree that thitherto I had imagined to be a rather delicate, scraggly bush &#8212; was one that I shall never forget.<\/p>\n<p><b>Selected readings<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\"<a title=\"Permanent link to Horses, soma, riddles, magi, and animal style art in southern China\" href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=44944\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"bookmark noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D44944&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw11gal9YfQTiEcAHIPQVPgJ\">Horses, soma, riddles, magi, and animal style art in southern China<\/a>\" (11\/11\/19)<\/li>\n<li>\"<a title=\"Permanent link to The ethnopolitics of National Language in China\" href=\"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=39061\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"bookmark noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p%3D39061&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1656219639815000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1LF_EEOWMG9W47aSSUMIS_\">The ethnopolitics of National Language in China<\/a>\" (7\/2\/18) &#8212; in the comments<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Update (July 7, 2022)<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>From Ross Bender (6\/6\/22):<\/p>\n<div class=\"gmail-box\">\n<p>Orth:\u00a0<b>katura<\/b><\/p>\n<p>Part-of-speech: noun<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail-box\">Sense1: katsura tree (cercidiphyllum japonicum)<\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail-box\"><b>MYS.4.632<\/b><br \/>\nme\u00a0<i>ni<\/i>\u00a0<i>pa<\/i>\u00a0mite te\u00a0<i>ni<\/i>\u00a0<i>pa<\/i>\u00a0torayenu tukwi\u00a0<u>no<\/u>\u00a0uti no\u00a0katura\u00a0<u>no<\/u>\u00a0goto<u>ki<\/u>\u00a0imo\u00a0<i>wo<\/i>\u00a0ika<u>ni<\/u>\u00a0<i>se<\/i><i>mu<\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/oncoj.orinst.ox.ac.uk\/cgi-bin\/oncoj.sh?tree=MYS.7.1359@39__;!!IBzWLUs!SzKkxzSGs0Cq9HDsgYbmytVp7wujREhIiO_ItckyE20zQJ1g17EuroLTi1WPPLElvtyOqAcMWTKp03m8R90$\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail-box\"><b>MYS.7.1359<\/b><br \/>\nmuka\u00a0<u>tu<\/u>\u00a0wo no wakakatura\u00a0<u>no<\/u>\u00a0kwi siduye tori pana matu\u00a0<i>i<\/i>ma\u00a0<i>ni<\/i>\u00a0nageki<i>turu<\/i>\u00a0<i>kamo<\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/oncoj.orinst.ox.ac.uk\/cgi-bin\/oncoj.sh?tree=MYS.10.2202@60__;!!IBzWLUs!SzKkxzSGs0Cq9HDsgYbmytVp7wujREhIiO_ItckyE20zQJ1g17EuroLTi1WPPLElvtyOqAcMWTKpomRtl-0$\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">3<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail-box\"><b>MYS.10.2202<\/b><br \/>\nmomiti suru toki\u00a0<i>ni<\/i>\u00a0naru\u00a0<i>rasi<\/i>\u00a0tukwipito\u00a0<u>no<\/u>\u00a0katura\u00a0<u>no<\/u>\u00a0yeda\u00a0<i>no<\/i>\u00a0iroduku mireba<a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/oncoj.orinst.ox.ac.uk\/cgi-bin\/oncoj.sh?tree=MYS.10.2223@53__;!!IBzWLUs!SzKkxzSGs0Cq9HDsgYbmytVp7wujREhIiO_ItckyE20zQJ1g17EuroLTi1WPPLElvtyOqAcMWTKpsvinjuU$\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">4<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail-box\"><b>MYS.10.2223<\/b><br \/>\name\u00a0<u>no<\/u>\u00a0umi\u00a0<u>ni<\/u>\u00a0tukwi\u00a0<u>no<\/u>\u00a0pune uke\u00a0katurakadi kakete kogu miyu tukwipitowotokwo<\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail-box\">from:<\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail-box\"><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/oncoj.ninjal.ac.jp\/list_of_words_English.html__;!!IBzWLUs!SzKkxzSGs0Cq9HDsgYbmytVp7wujREhIiO_ItckyE20zQJ1g17EuroLTi1WPPLElvtyOqAcMWTKpC_vbyWY$\">Oxford NINJAL Corpus of Old Japanese (ONCOJ)<\/a><\/div>\n<p>From John Whitman (6\/6\/22):<\/p>\n<p>Here are the two etymologies given by <a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/**CJapanese__;5qGCIw!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1GvtLCNj$\"> Wiktionary<\/a>:<\/p>\n<p>=====<\/p>\n<p>From <a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Old_Japanese__;!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1FX8eYtr$\">Old Japanese<\/a>. Originally a compound of <em><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/**CJapanese__;6aaZIw!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1LrIUmk4$\">\u9999<\/a><\/em> (ka, \u201cfragrance, good smell\u201d) +\u200e <em><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/**CJapanese__;5Ye6Iw!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1ElFEn_V$\">\u51fa<\/a><\/em> (zu, \u201cto come out, to put something out\u201d) + <em><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/**CJapanese__;44KJIw!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1OSydOX3$\">\u3089<\/a><\/em> (ra, nominalizing suffix): \"that which puts out a good smell\", from the way the wood smells good.<\/p>\n<p>This is a total folk etymology. The verb +\u200e <em><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/**CJapanese__;5Ye6Iw!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1ElFEn_V$\">\u51fa<\/a><\/em> \u201czu\u201d is historically (that is, both in OJ and pJ on the basis of JR comparative evidence) idA- &lt; *ind(A)-. No way that would give -tura.<\/p>\n<p>From <a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Old_Japanese__;!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1FX8eYtr$\">Old Japanese<\/a>. Alternate spelling for <em><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title=**E&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1__;5aWz5qGC!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1KLl7Xao$\">\u5973\u6842<\/a><\/em> (mekatsura, \u201cfemale katsura\u201d), an archaic name for the <a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/cinnamon__;!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1KH9sshQ$\">cinnamon<\/a> tree. Compare <em><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title=**E&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1__;55S35qGC!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1HMTFAKa$\">\u7537\u6842<\/a><\/em> (okatsura, \u201cmale katsura: the katsura tree\u201d). Appears with this reading in the <em><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/w\/index.php?title=**N&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1__;5ZKM5ZCN6aGe6IGa5oqE!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1EUUVwCu$\">\u548c\u540d\u985e\u805a\u6284<\/a><\/em> (<a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Wamy**A_Ruijush**A__;xY3FjQ!!IBzWLUs!TWbcoBUPYpSUBL5BBbw-4DVVCvUYszt7bjJ4BY0FwqrA0s816n9zxHaOGTbFgq_ByFWQbHMz1DwiB_Gd$\">Wamy\u014d Ruijush\u014d<\/a>), a Japanese dictionary of Chinese characters completed in 938.<\/p>\n<p>These forms simply apply the standard male and female prefixes to a root katura. So they don\u2019t solve the problem.<\/p>\n<p>Japanese lexicographers seem to have a consensus that the first syllable ka- is \u2018fragrance\u2019, historically written \u9999 (although this can also be a phonogram!). There aren\u2019t a lot of OJ examples with ka- as the first member in a subcompound, and at least one of them triggers rendaku, though, so why katura is not kadura is a problem; as is the fact that modern tree called katura is not fragrant. It could be that one of the other two species referred to as katura, particularly cinnamon, is the original word. In OJ tura (usually \u9249) appeared to refer not just to strings of an instrument but to vines, but the modern tree katura does not have vines.<\/p>\n<p>From John Bentley (6\/7\/22):<\/p>\n<p>In response to your first question: the first etymology is untenable. Old Japanese (OJ) id- (idu) \u201ccome out, go out\u201d is vowel-initial, and that is not accounted for in the first etymology. Also, it is phonetically \/ntu\/ and not zu. The second example is not really an etymology, simply a personification, apparently to reflect the strength of the scent of two different trees. In <em><a href=\"https:\/\/urldefense.com\/v3\/__https:\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Wamy**A_Ruijush**A__;xY3FjQ!!IBzWLUs!RWOpfNj0SPKIah8WhIorlw_Gm6krOvWqZ0V-WJWp1el0BNq7ppx_BH2hvAdX7JpVfiHdUnQViItyHm8FDybf$\">Wamy\u014dsh\u014d<\/a><\/em> <em>mekatura <\/em>is written with the Chinese character \u6842, while <em>wokatura<\/em> is written as \u6953. Consider, however, that in the late 9<sup>th<\/sup> Century character dictionary <em>Shinsen jiky<\/em><em>\u014d<\/em> both Chinese characters are ready simply as <em> katura<\/em> (\u52a0\u8c46\u826f). The final interesting piece is that both words have the same pitch accent, aside from the gender designator. In essence, I think there may have been an attempt by the Japanese to distinguish between two species of tree, where only one was indigenous to Japan.<\/p>\n<p>Regarding the final question about Sino-Japanese, both Schuessler and Baxter\/Sagart\u2019s reconstructions of early Chinese forms of the character \u6842 is something close to *ke or *kwe, which doesn\u2019t match with the OJ name.<\/p>\n<p>From Nathan Hopson (6\/7\/22):<\/p>\n<div class=\"gmail_default\">\u65e5\u672c\u56fd\u5927\u8f9e\u5178 lists the following etymological hypotheses:<\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail_default\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail_default\">(1)\u30ab\u30c5\uff08\u9999\u51fa\uff09\u30e9\u304b\u3014\u8a00\u5143\u68af\u30fb\u5927\u8a00\u6d77\u3015\u3002\u9999\u51fa\u30c5\u30eb\u306e\u7fa9\u304b\u3014\u97f3\u5e7b\u8ad6\uff1d\u5e78\u7530\u9732\u4f34\u3015\u3002<br \/>\n(2)\u30ab\u306f\u9999\u3001\u30c4\u30e9\u306f\u30c4\u30d6\u30e9\uff08\u5186\uff09\u306e\u7565\u3014\u677e\u5c4b\u53e2\u8003\u3015\u3002<br \/>\n(3)\u30ab\u30c4\u30e9\u30cc\u30af\uff08\u9999\u8cab\uff09\u306e\u7fa9\u3014\u540d\u8a00\u901a\u3015\u3002<br \/>\n(4)\u9999\u304c\u30c4\u30e9\u30ca\u3063\u3066\u7d76\u3048\u306a\u3044\u3068\u3053\u308d\u304b\u3089\u3014\u672c\u671d\u8f9e\u6e90\uff1d\u5b87\u7530\u7518\u51a5\u3015\u3002<br \/>\n(5)\u65e5\u30ce\u30ab\u30b2\u30c4\u30e9\u30ca\u30eb\uff08\u5f71\u9023\uff09\u306e\u7565\u3014\u7d2b\u9580\u548c\u8a9e\u985e\u96c6\u3015\u3002<br \/>\n(6)\u30ab\u30c4\u30bf\u30cf\u30ea\uff08\u9999\u4f1d\uff09\u82b1\u306e\u7fa9\u3014\u65e5\u672c\u8a9e\u539f\u5b66\uff1d\u6797\u7515\u81e3\u3015\u3002<\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail_default\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail_default\">All but #5 agree that \u9999 gives us \u304b. Other than that, they appear to be all over the place.<\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail_default\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"gmail_default\">To the extent that \u6842 is a\u00a0\u9999\u6728 (\u3053\u3046\u307c\u304f), this at least passes the smell test, if you know what I mean.<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If you stroll through the grounds of the Morris Arboretum of the University of Pennsylvania, you may come upon this phenomenal tree:<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":13,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[223,15],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-55106","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-language-and-biology","category-names"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55106","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/13"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=55106"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55106\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":55187,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55106\/revisions\/55187"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=55106"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=55106"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=55106"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}