{"id":32536,"date":"2017-05-06T22:27:57","date_gmt":"2017-05-07T03:27:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=32536"},"modified":"2017-05-06T22:27:57","modified_gmt":"2017-05-07T03:27:57","slug":"unknown-language-9","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/?p=32536","title":{"rendered":"Unknown language #9"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Forwarded by Geoff Wade (sans Twitter comments):<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"500\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">HELP NEEDED: A researcher has asked if we can help with translation of this&#8230; <a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/uZl1GGS4Qh\">pic.twitter.com\/uZl1GGS4Qh<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Royal Asiatic Society (@RAS_Soc) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/RAS_Soc\/status\/860093029218213888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">May 4, 2017<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p>There are a number of things about this piece that make me doubt that the symbols on it represent translatable language.\u00a0 The three symbols in the left column are virtually the same (only minor variations), the three symbols in the middle column are also virtually the same (only minor variations), and the three characters in the right column have bits and pieces cobbled together from Chinese characters.<\/p>\n<p>Particularly noticeable is the <span class=\"dicpy\">ch\u00ec<\/span> \u52c5 at the top of the second symbol in the right column.\u00a0 That is a variant of \u6555 (\"an imperial order or decree\"), which is what this piece may be trying to emulate, but from the standpoint of a Taoist master.\u00a0 In other words, I see this piece as a Taoist f\u00fa \u7b26 (\"<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Fulu\">talisman, charm<\/a>, tessera\"), not as a type of written language per se.<\/p>\n<p>The red seal and the creases of the paper, indicating that the piece was folded and stored in a significant location (on an altar, in a book of scripture, on the person of a Taoist devotee, etc.), complement the interpretation put forward in the preceding paragraphs.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<\/p>\n<p>I originally wrote the above paragraphs a couple of days ago, before reading the whole tweet &#8212; with the comments &#8212; this morning, thanks to Ben Zimmer.<\/p>\n<p>Thanks also to XIE Bo, a Taoist specialist, who wrote this morning as follows:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">After getting your email on the talisman, I also consulted my friends who are experts on Daoist practice including talismanic writing. Unfortunately, they are unable to recognize it either.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">But I do agree with you: 1, it is definitely a Daoist talisman. 2, one of part of the talisman looks like the character \u6555.<\/p>\n<div style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\n<p>Actually, it is not surprising. In its formative period, Daoism imitated the imperial bureaucratic system in many ways, including bureaucratic hierarchy \u00a0and clerical system. Therefore, \u5f8b\u4ee4*\uff0c\u6555, etc. such characters appearing in talismans are common.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">*VHM:\u00a0 l\u01dcl\u00ecng \u5f8b\u4ee4 (\"law; laws and decrees; command; order; ordinance\"); in Taoist liturgies, these are commands to the gods.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\n<p>For the system and practice of talismanic writing, there are many genres and categories, even today. So, it is very difficult to accurately identify it. One of my friends thinks that it might be for treating an illness, and belongs to Zhuyou ke \u795d\u7531\u79d1.**<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">**VHM:\u00a0 Supplication specialty, an ancient method of using magic symbols to treat illness.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\u00a0I also consulted another friend, who is a priest in Tongbai Temple \u6850\u67cf\u5bae. I will forward you his answer, if he can recognize it.<\/div>\n<p>John Lagerwey, an expert on Taoist liturgy, rituals, and practice, sent in the following notes:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">Your instincts are right: these \u201ccharacters\u201d look very much like the composite characters that Daoists regularly invent as talismans (actually, they are secret names of gods, taboo names <em>hui<\/em>). And you are right also about the \u201cimperial order\u201d <em>chi<\/em> in the character on the right. It is often found at the top of Daoist talismans. And no, this is not translatable language, at least not if you don\u2019t have the key.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">All that said, the nature of the composition, its mode, is unlike any actual Daoist talismans I have ever seen, whether in the Canon or in the field. So if they are of Daoist origin, it is from some very local \u2013 or perhaps even individual \u2013 form of practice.<\/p>\n<p>Russell Kirkland, a scholar of Taoist history and doctrine, remarked:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">I agree.\u00a0 They are supposed to empower the practitioner with a particular ritual charm.<\/p>\n<p>Paul Katz, a specialist on Taoist popular religion, observed:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">I\u2019ve seen symbols like these in numerous Daoist liturgical manuscripts, but since they most likely talismans and I have not been trained as a Daoist master, I am unable to interpret their meaning (this not to say that they are a language, but some can represent specific deities\/spirits).<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">You might want to ask Rik Schipper or his students, or else Susan Huang or James Robson. Another possibility is David Holm or his student Kao Ya-ning, who have done fine work on non-Han texts, some of which might have symbols like this.<\/p>\n<p>Bottom line:\u00a0 The symbols on this talisman do not directly represent morphemes, phonemes, or lexemes, but they do convey meaning, and they can be \"read\" as prayers and spells.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Forwarded by Geoff Wade (sans Twitter comments): HELP NEEDED: A researcher has asked if we can help with translation of this&#8230; pic.twitter.com\/uZl1GGS4Qh &mdash; Royal Asiatic Society (@RAS_Soc) May 4, 2017<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":13,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[233,58,18],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-32536","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-language-and-religion","category-quizzes","category-writing-systems"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32536","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/13"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=32536"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32536\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":32565,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32536\/revisions\/32565"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=32536"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=32536"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu\/nll\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=32536"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}