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	<title>Comments on: Journalist Falls Flat in Comprehension Test</title>
	<atom:link href="http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?feed=rss2&#038;p=4359" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 08:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: On Bloomberg and the Financial Times, AP and Homophobia, 2012 in Review and Mannying &#171; Project Chiron (Beta)</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-306085</link>
		<dc:creator>On Bloomberg and the Financial Times, AP and Homophobia, 2012 in Review and Mannying &#171; Project Chiron (Beta)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-306085</guid>
		<description>[...] Economist in a piece on “shaken but not stirred.” In another Language Log post, Mark Liberman questioned the accuracy of Stephanie Banchero’s interpretation of the results of the 2011 National Assessment of Educational [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Economist in a piece on “shaken but not stirred.” In another Language Log post, Mark Liberman questioned the accuracy of Stephanie Banchero’s interpretation of the results of the 2011 National Assessment of Educational [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: A reporting fail on failing reports. &#124; greg walklin</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-304649</link>
		<dc:creator>A reporting fail on failing reports. &#124; greg walklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2012 13:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-304649</guid>
		<description>[...] a little late to this link, but the always-excellent Language Log has a great post eviscerating a recent Wall Street Journal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] a little late to this link, but the always-excellent Language Log has a great post eviscerating a recent Wall Street Journal [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: undergrad</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-300453</link>
		<dc:creator>undergrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 17:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-300453</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link, Joe.

Maybe I've failed the comprehension test provided by the color-coded charts on page eight, but if I haven't... Does anyone think it's an interesting coincidence that the Chair and Vice Chair of the National Assessment Governing Board are from two of the three states that scored higher than the national average for all grade levels tested (MA &#38; NH)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, Joe.</p>
<p>Maybe I've failed the comprehension test provided by the color-coded charts on page eight, but if I haven't&#8230; Does anyone think it's an interesting coincidence that the Chair and Vice Chair of the National Assessment Governing Board are from two of the three states that scored higher than the national average for all grade levels tested (MA &amp; NH)?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299805</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299805</guid>
		<description>@Dan M.

Sorry, I misread what you had posted. I was referring to the question that was asked, but now I see you were referring to the text they read from. So I thought the typo was an incorrect copy of the question that students were asked.  I wasn't referring to your own post. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan M.</p>
<p>Sorry, I misread what you had posted. I was referring to the question that was asked, but now I see you were referring to the text they read from. So I thought the typo was an incorrect copy of the question that students were asked.  I wasn't referring to your own post. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan M.</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299713</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299713</guid>
		<description>I see that in accordance with Skitt's Law, I need to make the substitution s/common/comma/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that in accordance with Skitt's Law, I need to make the substitution s/common/comma/</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299676</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299676</guid>
		<description>@Dan M. 

I think there is a typo somewhere in your question. The one that I have states:

"On page 1, the author says that mint syrup PERMEATED the saved ice. This means that the mint syrup  . . ."

As with the case of "puzzled," you really need to know the questions and what students responded to be able to interpret the result. 24 percent of students selected option D, which states that "made the shaved ice taste better." I can certainly see why students would have selected this answer. The question doesn't say, "the word 'permeate' means in this context . . . Instead, it says "this means. . . " (it's obvious to someone used to answering such questions that "it" refers to the boldfaced word, but the question is badly worded). One could certainly argue that students who said that "this means that the mint syrup made the shaved ice taste better" had an understanding of what "permeate" means: they just didn't correctly identify what the question was asking.  So it looks like to me that you could arguably say that 75% of students had at least some understanding of what permeates means. 

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/main2011/2013452.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan M. </p>
<p>I think there is a typo somewhere in your question. The one that I have states:</p>
<p>"On page 1, the author says that mint syrup PERMEATED the saved ice. This means that the mint syrup  . . ."</p>
<p>As with the case of "puzzled," you really need to know the questions and what students responded to be able to interpret the result. 24 percent of students selected option D, which states that "made the shaved ice taste better." I can certainly see why students would have selected this answer. The question doesn't say, "the word 'permeate' means in this context . . . Instead, it says "this means. . . " (it's obvious to someone used to answering such questions that "it" refers to the boldfaced word, but the question is badly worded). One could certainly argue that students who said that "this means that the mint syrup made the shaved ice taste better" had an understanding of what "permeate" means: they just didn't correctly identify what the question was asking.  So it looks like to me that you could arguably say that 75% of students had at least some understanding of what permeates means. </p>
<p><a href="http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/main2011/2013452.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/main2011/2013452.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan M.</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299603</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 02:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299603</guid>
		<description>To be fair, in the context where "permeates" is used, it would mean all the way through, if indeed the passage means anything at all.  But that context is quite odd.  From the PDF linked in the OP (emphasis mine):
&lt;blockquote&gt;He concocted a flamboyant elixir of mint. Its scent clung to his fingers even after he washed his hands. Then he shaved ice into tiny particles and served it mounted in a glass dish. &lt;b&gt;Permeated with mint syrup.&lt;/b&gt; Scoops of rich vanilla ice cream to each side.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Obviously, that's a sentence fragment, but even recognizing that good writing sometimes uses such fragments, I cannot make this grammatical for myself.

If the sentence were "Permeated it with mint syrup.", then I could see it as having elided the subject, but as it stands it sounds like an adjective phrase, and I see no grammatical way of telling what it modifies; "glass dish" is nearest, but obviously senseless.

If the phrase were connected to the previous sentence by a common, it would then seem to modify the "it" that was served.  That fits the apparent meaning, but is, at least to me, simply not one of the possible things expressed by the punctuation used.

It's hardly a wonder if students were having trouble telling what the author meant by the sentence fragment and failed over to choosing the unconnected true statement in (D).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, in the context where "permeates" is used, it would mean all the way through, if indeed the passage means anything at all.  But that context is quite odd.  From the PDF linked in the OP (emphasis mine):</p>
<blockquote><p>He concocted a flamboyant elixir of mint. Its scent clung to his fingers even after he washed his hands. Then he shaved ice into tiny particles and served it mounted in a glass dish. <b>Permeated with mint syrup.</b> Scoops of rich vanilla ice cream to each side.</p></blockquote>
<p>Obviously, that's a sentence fragment, but even recognizing that good writing sometimes uses such fragments, I cannot make this grammatical for myself.</p>
<p>If the sentence were "Permeated it with mint syrup.", then I could see it as having elided the subject, but as it stands it sounds like an adjective phrase, and I see no grammatical way of telling what it modifies; "glass dish" is nearest, but obviously senseless.</p>
<p>If the phrase were connected to the previous sentence by a common, it would then seem to modify the "it" that was served.  That fits the apparent meaning, but is, at least to me, simply not one of the possible things expressed by the punctuation used.</p>
<p>It's hardly a wonder if students were having trouble telling what the author meant by the sentence fragment and failed over to choosing the unconnected true statement in (D).</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Brown</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299544</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299544</guid>
		<description>And since when did the range of use of "permeates" imply all the way through?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And since when did the range of use of "permeates" imply all the way through?</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299531</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299531</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;some remedial statistics for journalists course&lt;/i&gt;

Unfortunately, the mention of such a thing presupposes (I suspect incorrectly) that there is some standard level of comprehension of statistics that is expected of journalists, such that failing to achieve it warrants a remedy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>some remedial statistics for journalists course</i></p>
<p>Unfortunately, the mention of such a thing presupposes (I suspect incorrectly) that there is some standard level of comprehension of statistics that is expected of journalists, such that failing to achieve it warrants a remedy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan M.</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299368</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299368</guid>
		<description>Am I the only one who thought from the title of this post that it was going to discuss the misuse of "fall flat"?

In my ideolect at least, "fall flat" means "to fail to elicit the desired reaction from an audience".  So, a report can fall flat by not impacting policy or not conveying the result wanted by its sponsor, and students can fall flat with a musical or comedy sketch, but it's impossible for students to fall flat in a test.

Is there another usage of "fall flat" that I've failed to learn?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only one who thought from the title of this post that it was going to discuss the misuse of "fall flat"?</p>
<p>In my ideolect at least, "fall flat" means "to fail to elicit the desired reaction from an audience".  So, a report can fall flat by not impacting policy or not conveying the result wanted by its sponsor, and students can fall flat with a musical or comedy sketch, but it's impossible for students to fall flat in a test.</p>
<p>Is there another usage of "fall flat" that I've failed to learn?</p>
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		<title>By: richardelguru</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299144</link>
		<dc:creator>richardelguru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-299144</guid>
		<description>Jason "plenipotentiary is to diplomat as _____ is to fashion model"
Anorexic?

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason "plenipotentiary is to diplomat as _____ is to fashion model"<br />
Anorexic?</p>
<p>:-)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark F.</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-298902</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 04:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-298902</guid>
		<description>I think the way to describe the students' performance on the ducks question would be to say that almost half of them failed to figure out that they had to find an exact match in the text for the italicized word in order to answer the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the way to describe the students' performance on the ducks question would be to say that almost half of them failed to figure out that they had to find an exact match in the text for the italicized word in order to answer the question.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Carney</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-298865</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 00:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-298865</guid>
		<description>Exactly. When influential media like WSJ get people riled up, including legislators and curriculum designers, we're apt to get sweeping changes that address the wrong problems. Worse, we may get "solutions" that have little empirical evidence demonstrating that they have a hope in hell of working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly. When influential media like WSJ get people riled up, including legislators and curriculum designers, we're apt to get sweeping changes that address the wrong problems. Worse, we may get "solutions" that have little empirical evidence demonstrating that they have a hope in hell of working.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt McIrvin</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-298753</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McIrvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-298753</guid>
		<description>These kinds of stories make me wonder about the popular statistics that say that some frighteningly huge (but varying) percentage of Americans are "functionally illiterate." Is it really that they have too-poor reading skills to fill out a form, or have they just scored low on some idiotically constructed gotcha test?

&lt;font color="#FF0000"&gt;[(myl) There are surely genuine problems in many areas of education in many parts of the world, and genuine problems in adults' levels of knowledge and skills as well. But the stories that are told to illustrate these points are often exaggerated, misleading, or flat wrong -- see "&lt;a href="http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002894.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Freedom of speech: More famous than Bart Simpson&lt;/a&gt;", or "&lt;a href="http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3213" rel="nofollow"&gt;A reading comprehension test&lt;/a&gt;", for a couple of notable examples.

And overall, I'm less worried about how fourth-graders perform on the NAEP's tests than I am about whether the WSJ's reporters can read and understand and summarize the NAEP's reports, and whether the WSJ's readers can put the WSJ's summary into socio-political context in a half-way sensible fashion.]&lt;/font&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These kinds of stories make me wonder about the popular statistics that say that some frighteningly huge (but varying) percentage of Americans are "functionally illiterate." Is it really that they have too-poor reading skills to fill out a form, or have they just scored low on some idiotically constructed gotcha test?</p>
<p><font color="#FF0000">[(myl) There are surely genuine problems in many areas of education in many parts of the world, and genuine problems in adults' levels of knowledge and skills as well. But the stories that are told to illustrate these points are often exaggerated, misleading, or flat wrong &#8212; see "<a href="http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002894.html" rel="nofollow">Freedom of speech: More famous than Bart Simpson</a>", or "<a href="http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3213" rel="nofollow">A reading comprehension test</a>", for a couple of notable examples.</p>
<p>And overall, I'm less worried about how fourth-graders perform on the NAEP's tests than I am about whether the WSJ's reporters can read and understand and summarize the NAEP's reports, and whether the WSJ's readers can put the WSJ's summary into socio-political context in a half-way sensible fashion.]</font></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew (not the same one)</title>
		<link>http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-298742</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew (not the same one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4359#comment-298742</guid>
		<description>Does 'puzzled' really mean the same as 'confused'? I would say that 'I wonder where the ducks have gone,' was puzzled, while 'Oh gosh, the ducks. What? Where? I don't understand,' was confused. (Possibly the latter is also puzzled, but not vice versa.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does 'puzzled' really mean the same as 'confused'? I would say that 'I wonder where the ducks have gone,' was puzzled, while 'Oh gosh, the ducks. What? Where? I don't understand,' was confused. (Possibly the latter is also puzzled, but not vice versa.)</p>
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