Comments on: Vocal fry: "creeping in" or "still here"? http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626 Sun, 19 May 2013 04:30:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Arana: Good sociolinguistic conclusion despite questionable examples http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-322255 Arana: Good sociolinguistic conclusion despite questionable examples Thu, 17 Jan 2013 03:31:46 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-322255 [...] it may be, but creaky voice is hardly new. As Liberman noted in 2011, Wolk, Abdelli-Beruh, and Slavin did not trace changes over time (nor did they compare women and [...] […] it may be, but creaky voice is hardly new. As Liberman noted in 2011, Wolk, Abdelli-Beruh, and Slavin did not trace changes over time (nor did they compare women and […]

]]> By: the phonetics-phonology distinction | Fredrik deBoer http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-174092 the phonetics-phonology distinction | Fredrik deBoer Sat, 25 Feb 2012 17:11:31 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-174092 [...] awesome Language Log post, which includes some audio examples and waveform data, reminds me of how I often used to get [...] […] awesome Language Log post, which includes some audio examples and waveform data, reminds me of how I often used to get […]

]]> By: Britney, Pitney and vocal fry | speech talk http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-167673 Britney, Pitney and vocal fry | speech talk Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:58:57 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-167673 [...] there was a response of measured objectivity on the blog of leading phonetician Mark Liberman.  His main complaint was against the alleged novelty (and sex-specificity) of the phenomenon – [...] […] there was a response of measured objectivity on the blog of leading phonetician Mark Liberman.  His main complaint was against the alleged novelty (and sex-specificity) of the phenomenon – […]

]]> By: Fuzzworth http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-161551 Fuzzworth Sun, 08 Jan 2012 23:14:13 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-161551 For extended examples of vocal fry, listen to Amy Goodman of "Democracy Now!" She drops whole sentences into the glottal gravel during her commentaries. makes her otherwise excellent program difficult to listen to at times. The women on "Slate" are chronic offenders, as well. Emily Bazelon amandons her kazoo-like voice at the ends of sentences to drop into the fry mode quite frequently, and one of the guests (forgotten which one) on their "Triple X Gabfest" speaks whole paragraphs in the fry mode. For extended examples of vocal fry, listen to Amy Goodman of "Democracy Now!" She drops whole sentences into the glottal gravel during her commentaries. makes her otherwise excellent program difficult to listen to at times. The women on "Slate" are chronic offenders, as well. Emily Bazelon amandons her kazoo-like voice at the ends of sentences to drop into the fry mode quite frequently, and one of the guests (forgotten which one) on their "Triple X Gabfest" speaks whole paragraphs in the fry mode.

]]> By: What’s the Point? « the linguistics underground http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158519 What’s the Point? « the linguistics underground Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:50:17 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158519 [...] but seemingly unheard of elsewhere.) The recent vocal fry phenomenon is another good example, where actual linguists have weighed in about how the whole thing isn’t actually so recent, yet nobody is paying [...] […] but seemingly unheard of elsewhere.) The recent vocal fry phenomenon is another good example, where actual linguists have weighed in about how the whole thing isn't actually so recent, yet nobody is paying […]

]]> By: Steve http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158317 Steve Thu, 22 Dec 2011 16:14:55 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158317 Very much enjoying this thread, but... Seems to me that 'vocal fry' could also be used to refer to the hullabaloo in the media and culture (my god, more than fifty comments on this post alone!) over something that is interesting and not nearly as important as the culture seems to believe (e.g., "all this discussion about verbal fry is so much verbal fry!") Very much enjoying this thread, but…

Seems to me that 'vocal fry' could also be used to refer to the hullabaloo in the media and culture (my god, more than fifty comments on this post alone!) over something that is interesting and not nearly as important as the culture seems to believe (e.g., "all this discussion about verbal fry is so much verbal fry!")

]]> By: Would You Like Fries With That? | RegenAxe http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158216 Would You Like Fries With That? | RegenAxe Thu, 22 Dec 2011 03:35:21 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158216 [...] akin to valley girl up speak. Pushback was quick and forceful. Another great podcast steer, the Language Log does it best. True, Brittany Spears affect this speech pattern, but so did Mae West. When did [...] […] akin to valley girl up speak. Pushback was quick and forceful. Another great podcast steer, the Language Log does it best. True, Brittany Spears affect this speech pattern, but so did Mae West. When did […]

]]> By: G D Milner http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158086 G D Milner Wed, 21 Dec 2011 16:19:59 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158086 I remember Snagglepuss cartoons as a kid in which that "hep cat" himself seemed to exhibit this voice pattern. I remember Snagglepuss cartoons as a kid in which that "hep cat" himself seemed to exhibit this voice pattern.

]]> By: David Crystal http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158018 David Crystal Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:00:21 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-158018 'Creak' is one of the paralinguistic features listed in the analysis by David Crystal and Randolph Quirk, 'Systems of Prosodic and Paralinguistic Features in English'. That was 1964. The feature has been around a long time, and in the corpus we studied then was by no means restricted to women. <font color="#FF0000">[(myl) Thanks for the corpus-related citation! More anecdotal observations go back even earlier, e.g. to John Firth, <em>The Tongues of Men</em> (1937): <blockquote>In England breathy voice and creaky voice are not associated with differences between words but with different social types and also with different social attitudes. The breathy oh! and oo! is coupled with a very different bodily and social attitude from the creaky oh! or oo! We may call this the phonation difference.</blockquote> ]</font> 'Creak' is one of the paralinguistic features listed in the analysis by David Crystal and Randolph Quirk, 'Systems of Prosodic and Paralinguistic Features in English'. That was 1964. The feature has been around a long time, and in the corpus we studied then was by no means restricted to women.

[(myl) Thanks for the corpus-related citation! More anecdotal observations go back even earlier, e.g. to John Firth, The Tongues of Men (1937):

In England breathy voice and creaky voice are not associated with differences between words but with different social types and also with different social attitudes. The breathy oh! and oo! is coupled with a very different bodily and social attitude from the creaky oh! or oo! We may call this the phonation difference.

]

]]> By: Sooo Bored With Twenty Somethings! http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-157866 Sooo Bored With Twenty Somethings! Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:27:10 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-157866 @Elena Wordsworth, your post hits the point exactly. The conscious and minor use of vocal fry has existed in the USA for years (Mae West example demonstrates this.) But the overuse of it among late teen and twenty something females portrays boredom with everyone and everything they are in contact with. Kim Kardashian's attitude portrays herself as the center of the universe and all others are annoyances to be barely tolerated. Sadly it is damaging the reputation of otherwise capable women as they reach important career milestones in academia and/or careers. I for one, can't wait for the Kardashians and their like (celebrities for celebrity sake) disappear from the American consciousness, <font color="#FF0000">[(myl) You have a right to your feelings, of course, but you don't have a right to your own facts. So far, the only evidence in favor of increasing "overuse among late teen and twenty something females" is an anecdotal impression, mostly on the part of people like you who have a negative reaction to the women in question. These anecdotal stereotypes very often turn out to be completely false, especially when they're linked to groups defined by emotionally freighted categories like race, sex, class, and/or age -- one good example is the widespread belief that women talk much more than men do, and there are many others. So you might be right about the increasing overuse, but you also might be completely wrong. In addition, it's far from clear that the meaning of this vocal register is "boredom". If it's something that people turn on and off, or use to different degrees, then this hypothesis is also subject to test. And again, such hypotheses often turn out to be wrong, for example the impression that "uptalk" indicates self-doubt. So it would be nice to know what the facts are about both of these things, especially since your impressions form part of a moral evaluation of a large group of people.]</font> @Elena Wordsworth, your post hits the point exactly. The conscious and minor use of vocal fry has existed in the USA for years (Mae West example demonstrates this.) But the overuse of it among late teen and twenty something females portrays boredom with everyone and everything they are in contact with. Kim Kardashian's attitude portrays herself as the center of the universe and all others are annoyances to be barely tolerated.

Sadly it is damaging the reputation of otherwise capable women as they reach important career milestones in academia and/or careers.

I for one, can't wait for the Kardashians and their like (celebrities for celebrity sake) disappear from the American consciousness,

[(myl) You have a right to your feelings, of course, but you don't have a right to your own facts. So far, the only evidence in favor of increasing "overuse among late teen and twenty something females" is an anecdotal impression, mostly on the part of people like you who have a negative reaction to the women in question. These anecdotal stereotypes very often turn out to be completely false, especially when they're linked to groups defined by emotionally freighted categories like race, sex, class, and/or age — one good example is the widespread belief that women talk much more than men do, and there are many others.

So you might be right about the increasing overuse, but you also might be completely wrong.

In addition, it's far from clear that the meaning of this vocal register is "boredom". If it's something that people turn on and off, or use to different degrees, then this hypothesis is also subject to test. And again, such hypotheses often turn out to be wrong, for example the impression that "uptalk" indicates self-doubt.

So it would be nice to know what the facts are about both of these things, especially since your impressions form part of a moral evaluation of a large group of people.]

]]> By: What “Vocal Fry” tells us about media science reporting » No measure of health http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-157562 What “Vocal Fry” tells us about media science reporting » No measure of health Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:41:38 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-157562 [...] I learned from that article, and the Language Log post it linked to, was that about the only thing the previous reports got right was that there is a [...] […] I learned from that article, and the Language Log post it linked to, was that about the only thing the previous reports got right was that there is a […]

]]> By: me http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-157367 me Sun, 18 Dec 2011 01:59:37 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-157367 In tacoma in high school I noticed that creaky voice was often used in the middle of sentences when there speaker was uncertain. "well..." was very often creaked. In tacoma in high school I noticed that creaky voice was often used in the middle of sentences when there speaker was uncertain. "well…" was very often creaked.

]]> By: Jess http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-156911 Jess Fri, 16 Dec 2011 03:24:08 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-156911 Thank you for this article. I've been hearing about this in the news lately and I'm only a undergrad linguistics student but I knew something wasn't right. Just strange sensationalist news spurred by the popularity of strange new pop stars. Thank you for this article. I've been hearing about this in the news lately and I'm only a undergrad linguistics student but I knew something wasn't right. Just strange sensationalist news spurred by the popularity of strange new pop stars.

]]> By: Get Your Creak On: Is ‘Vocal Fry’ a Female Fad? | RESIDE San Francisco http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-156908 Get Your Creak On: Is ‘Vocal Fry’ a Female Fad? | RESIDE San Francisco Fri, 16 Dec 2011 03:17:32 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-156908 [...] being falsetto at the high end, and modal, which is the normal speaking register. As one linguist put it, vocal fry has been commonly identified in speech “since forever” (in some languages, it’s a [...] […] being falsetto at the high end, and modal, which is the normal speaking register. As one linguist put it, vocal fry has been commonly identified in speech “since forever” (in some languages, it’s a […]

]]> By: Get Your Creak On: Is ‘Vocal Fry’ a Female Fad? | Life is... http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-156888 Get Your Creak On: Is ‘Vocal Fry’ a Female Fad? | Life is... Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:45:52 +0000 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626#comment-156888 [...] being falsetto at the high end, and modal, which is the normal speaking register. As one linguist put it, vocal fry has been commonly identified in speech “since forever” (in some languages, it’s a [...] […] being falsetto at the high end, and modal, which is the normal speaking register. As one linguist put it, vocal fry has been commonly identified in speech “since forever” (in some languages, it’s a […]

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